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92 Loyale Crank no start with weak spark

loyale legacy crank no start weak spark

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11 replies to this topic

#1 inkedmike73

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:56 PM

Hello new friends, 

I have recently purchased a 1992 Subaru Loyale 1.8L on-demand AWD 5 speed with 143k from a friend. 

It is not in running condition and when it died it just stopped with no sign or reason. 

Before I purchased it they tried replacing the following

Spark plugs

Wires

Distributor

Button

Cap

Coil

The car stopped running back in November 2012 and hasn't started since. 

I've spent 3 hours on this already and am ready to be done. 

I've double checked the timing of cylinder #1 and the distributor. They are in time and I get a strong spark to cylinder #1 and #3 however, I get a very weak signal to the other side #2 and #4. I'm confused by this, I even replaced the CAP again and same thing. 

I haven't tested compression yet, but I was able to see the intake valves on #1 while turning the motor for TDC (via TDC whistle indicator).

and I haven't tested for proper fuel pressure, however we get a nice steady flow. 

The motor does not sound like it has loss of compression, but doesn't sound 100% when cranking. \

I assumed that it was flooded so it has been aired out. 

I will test for compression and injector pulse tomorrow. 

Could it be possible that if the #2 and #4 timing belt is broken that it would give a weak spark? 

I haven't pulled the covers yet, because it is a little intensive to pull those things. lol. The car is still at my friends Apartment so this is all being done onsite, not in a garage. 

 

Any info would be great. This is my first boxer motor and I'm very excited about the Journey we will have together. 

 

again thank you new friends

-mike



#2 MR_Loyale

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:09 PM

Check the screw on the rotor.



#3 inkedmike73

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:33 PM

Checked that, it is tight.



#4 NorthWet

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:21 PM

Which are you calling cylinders 1 and 3?  1 and 3 are non-distributor side cylinders; cam for 2 and 4 drive the distributor, so if the rotor is turning that belt isn't broken.  Belts could be skipped, broken, or could have been installed with one 180deg off.  You can check for broken belts by removing the rubber plugs over the tensioner-bolt access holes.



#5 Dee2

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:29 PM

sounds like you've checked everything but the belts, so they need a good looking at.



#6 inkedmike73

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:38 PM

Cylinders 1 and 3 on the passenger side and 2 and 4 on the drivers side.  (IE distributor side) 

I only saw the valves on cylinder 1 moving so I'll have to check on the other side as well. 

No one has replaced the belt yet, so I doubt it has slipped to 180 deg. off. But I will remove those plugs to check the belts. 



#7 Dee2

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:05 PM

can you describe exactly what happens when you try to start the car ?

 

also, with a weak spark you may have to verify the parts recently replaced were in fact correct for the vehicle.


Edited by Dee2, 08 July 2013 - 04:10 PM.


#8 inkedmike73

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:26 PM

When cranking the motor turns and sounds like it might start. With a spark test light on cylinder 1 and 3 I get a bright light indicating spark. and on cylinder 2 and 4 it is very dim. 

it doesn't sound like it is firing either just as if it's missing spark or fuel. It also sounds like it's only getting half combustion. That's why I'll be checking that tomorrow. 

The parts came from Napa, usually okay but I know not the best. 



#9 NorthWet

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 06:13 PM

Have you tried starter fluid/supplemental fuel to see if that makes a difference?  Have the fuel lines been taken loose and reattached? (easy to reverse feed and return lines).

 

How did you see the valves move on 1/3 side?  Did you pull the cam cover?  The "sounds like it might start" is common with 1/3-side timing belt failure... and with loose distributor rotor.  (You did actually grab the rotor and see if it could be turned or removed, right?)



#10 Dee2

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:31 PM

If you suspect no fuel problem, eliminate that possibility.  Try the starter fluid trick or rap on the fuel pump with a screwdriver handle.  Sometimes they get stuck and rapping on them will get them to temporarily work again. May take more than one attempt.



#11 inkedmike73

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:23 AM

Okay I want to thank everyone and your help thus far. I ordered a new timing belt set after doing a comopression check and the driver side was not getting any compression. Why I didn't think about that first IDK. When I got the timing belts off the driver side was missing many teeth and many more fell off. The passanger side was not bad but there were cracks in it.

Now I used the Chiltons guide for the timing marks and lined up the Crank Sproket Dot Up, and both Cam Sproket Dots up as well. Just like the book said.

Cranked and it sounded weird and did no start.

Checked compression and pass. side got up to 150 psi and driver side up to 90 psi.

Double checked the timing and it was not right.

Removed timing belts from Cams and turned crank for TDC (checked with TDC whistle indicator)

Then I lined up the Cams (Dot up).

Cranked and still no start.

Checked compression - this time better. 150 psi both sides after a couple turns.

Checked spark plugs. pass side seems to be firing but driver side has a wet plug. Fouled by fuel. Checked for spark to plug and I'm getting spark to the plug but maybe not through the plug.

Chiltons said something about applying pressure on the cams while putting the belt on.

Does this mean to turn the cam past the alignment mark into the springs of the valves then slide the belts on? That just didn't make sense as then it would be a little advanced.

I also plan on getting new NGK plugs, the current ones are new but they are bosch.

 

I can't think of anything else. I've not tried starter fluid because of the driver side being covered in fuel.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I need to get this thing running so my friend can have a car to drive as his grandmother passed away and they had to sell her car. I'm doing this as a favor, but when he gets a car I know the Subaru will be much fun to have.

 

Thank you all!

-Mike

 

NorthWet

"How did you see the valves move on 1/3 side?  Did you pull the cam
cover?  The "sounds like it might start" is common with 1/3-side timing
belt failure... and with loose distributor rotor.  (You did actually
grab the rotor and see if it could be turned or removed, right?)"

 

 --- I saw the valves move when I was rotating the motor and had the spark plug removed. But only on the 1/3 side. not the 2/4 side. After was when I did the compression check. and yes I actually check the distributor and tried to turn the rotor. it doesn't come off easily.



#12 MR_Loyale

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:18 PM

The belts are put in 180 degrees different. You put the dizzy side in, turn the crank one revolution and then the other.  Watch the excellent Miles Fox vid:

 

 







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