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2001 h6 outback transmission shudder trying to diagnose please help


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73 replies to this topic

#1 jgrimm

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:26 PM

My 2001 outback with h6 vdc recently started hearing grinding when accelerate moderately or higher in first and second gear from around passenger side of car. Grinding has pretty much went away Now but trying to accelerate atty all in first or second gear the whole car shudders till its in third or fourth gear. Turned vdc off n problem just got worse. Is it bad transfer case?? Bad clutch pack?? Bad pinion?? I know when I hit bumps car rattles in front. So maybe bad axle slipping?? It is an auto. Once out of second gear problem goes away. Or when you stop accelerating. N I do get high rev a car shifts from first to second to third. Just not all the time. Did tranny full drain n refill couple times. N changed filter.did not help. Any ideas???

#2 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 08:49 AM

I would start by examining the axle. Also, check the front diff fluid with the little dipstick on the right side (opposite side from the autotran dipstick)



#3 ivans imports

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 09:29 AM

Drain front diff oil and check for debrie on the magnet sounds like the front pinion berring is going out is commen on h6 have done 3 now also they eatup planetarys.



#4 CNY_Dave

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:24 AM

It could be a bad CV joint, bad driveshaft, or bad bearing on the center differential.

 

With VDC there is a genuine center differential and a small lock-up clutchpack vs the large clutchpack on the other autos.

 

This sounds like the bad center diff bearing symptoms reported on the manual transmission subarus when the bearing goes.



#5 jgrimm

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:54 AM

How hard is it to change the pinion shaft and bearing?? Before I give a shop the ok if I can do it myself

#6 CNY_Dave

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 05:22 PM

If you have never set up a differential with a dial indicator, i wouldn't make this your first. If it is the front diff, cheapest route is probably having a used trans put in- or doing that yourself. I found a trans for $800 for my H6. I had a very loud whining front differential.

 

Pulling the trans apart to get to the pinion bearing is a bit of work.

 

One thing I have learned on these boards, don't assume you know what it is until you have a firm diagnosis. There are a number of things to look at based on your description so far.



#7 jgrimm

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

So I drained my front diff fluid and no metal shavings on magnet. Just very small amount of normal wear black sludge on magnet. My two front axles I can grab right were they go into transmission and shake them about eighth if inch up n down n in n out. Passenger side just barely worse then driver. But it dies nit feel worse than it should be. So what's next route. No metal or burning in transmission fluid.no metal in diff. What's next route. My first Subaru. Ugh.

#8 nipper

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:04 PM

What does the tach do during this shudder? Does the shudder change on curves?



#9 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:46 PM

dunno why I want to ask this but, how's reverse?



#10 nipper

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:19 PM

dunno why I want to ask this but, how's reverse?

That was my next question. I think this may be a dying transmission. How is the fluid, when was the last time it was serviced?



#11 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:48 AM

That was my next question. I think this may be a dying transmission. How is the fluid, when was the last time it was serviced?

 

yeah, it seems like the shifting problem would make me want to try a few drain/fill cycles with new fluid - maybe some CRC or Lucas transmission additive too. But, I guess it could be a front diff problem ???


Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 30 July 2013 - 07:48 AM.


#12 nipper

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:00 AM

yeah, it seems like the shifting problem would make me want to try a few drain/fill cycles with new fluid - maybe some CRC or Lucas transmission additive too. But, I guess it could be a front diff problem ???

 

Without a roar or whine, i am ruling out a front diff (which is usually an issue on a turbo). Also judder noise etc on a diff would be at startup when the stresses are the highest. This sounds like a clutch is starting to slip.



#13 grossgary

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:16 AM

front diffs don't go away or get better. i'm with nipper, no way it could be those.

 

check the front wheel bearings, Subarus often don't have "traditional" failures, symptoms, and bearing signs.  use a temp gauge - if it's notably hotter on the passengers side it's the wheel bearings.

 

any ABS, VDC, or CEL lights on the dash?



#14 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:55 AM

No lights are on. Reverse is just fine. Can accelerate hard as I want in reverse without a problem. If I put the tranny in third gear the shaking and judder is noticeably less when accelerating. Even though still starts out in first gear. Did three tranny drain n refills with filter change about five days ago n problem did nitty get better at all and fluid was just fine. What throws me off is why dies problem go away after second gear. I can afford to replace tranny but if I do n that was nit it I'll be irate

#15 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:58 AM

As for the Tach I dunno have not paid attention. I just know car shakes without any other noise yet seems to accelerate the same while shaking. If you let off gas to accelerate slower the shaking stops

#16 ivans imports

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:28 AM

Have you checked the rear driveshaft Ujoints sounds like clasic Ujoint problem glad the diffs ok.



#17 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:36 AM

O and I can take roundabouts by my house with tires squealing n giving it gas n no unusual sound.

#18 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:40 AM

If it was the rear u joint would not problem go away when I shut off vdc?? Cause problem gets noticeably worse when I shut vdc off

#19 ivans imports

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:43 AM

no is powered all the time check rear u joint is worst when cruiseing on hyway remember h6 has a posi rear diff this puts more load on ujoints a'm thinking more and more that is your problem



#20 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:59 AM

My shop says that its almost half a second before car goes into gear every now and then. He said if it was u joint shaft wood almost be falling off. He wants to tear it apart. Ha. That's 1200 right their to have it dropped and pulled apart. But he thinks cause it turns almost full revolution before catches sometimes that it can't be u joint. I dunno. I'll check it out if it does not rain

#21 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:05 AM

Hey my fiancee did tow the car 146 miles from where I got it from cause her friend did nit wanna drive it back. It was in neutral with steering wheel tied in place. But fluids and diff fluid looks like had been changed before like previous owner tried to find problem n could nit. I got car off auction.

#22 nipper

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:22 AM

Hey my fiancee did tow the car 146 miles from where I got it from cause her friend did nit wanna drive it back. It was in neutral with steering wheel tied in place. But fluids and diff fluid looks like had been changed before like previous owner tried to find problem n could nit. I got car off auction.

 

NOO!!!!!

 

And here is where the issue may have come from. You can not flat tow (or on a  tow truck) a subaru, or any AWD car without damaging the driveline. There is no rear pump to circulate the fluid while towing to keep the internals cool. 

 

How was it towed, i am afraid to ask.



#23 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:37 AM

Was towed with front tires on car dolly. Car in neutral with steering wheel tied straight. And just drive it again. When it starts vibrating and juddering when you accelerate moderately our harder the tachometer does not bounce. It stays moving like it should. And doing sixty just cruising their is no problem.but if you floor it once it drops into lower gear it starts shaking bad with no weird noise, just shaking and it slams into gear and felt like it bounced out of gear before it caught again but it stayed in gear. Its just trying to accelerate it happens n once out if second gear does not take much effort to keep the car accelerating so shaking stops is what it seems

#24 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:00 AM

not a good way to tow the car.

 

Probably time to shop for a used tranny.


Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 30 July 2013 - 11:01 AM.


#25 nipper

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:16 PM

not a good way to tow the car.

 

Probably time to shop for a used tranny.

transmission is ruined. Anything but a flatbed will destroy the transmission in these cars.






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