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2001 h6 outback transmission shudder trying to diagnose please help


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73 replies to this topic

#26 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:31 PM

If tranny is shot how come ours not burning or foaming my fluids?? My Mazda six I built for racing atty least foamed its tranny fluid when seal broke. First and second were shot in my 94 gtp and it burned tranny fluid in those gears

#27 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:50 PM

If tranny is shot how come ours not burning or foaming my fluids?? My Mazda six I built for racing atty least foamed its tranny fluid when seal broke. First and second were shot in my 94 gtp and it burned tranny fluid in those gears

 

Probably just the nature of the faulures involved. The towing likely burned up some clutches/bands (I'm no expert OK?) but the pump and seals seem to be intact. probably explains why reverse is OK. It wasn't towed in reverse and that clutch/band wasn't contacting anything that could cause wear. If it is affordable, your tranny may 'only' need some friction materials/parts replaced to work again (maybe just briefly though, could be risky,and other moving parts 'could' have had undue wear since the fluid wasn't being pumped through. Local heating of gears, etc. may have shortnend the lifespan of those parts. ) - it's just that a used tranny may be a cheaper way to proceed. Even the owner's manual has extensive warnings about towing the car. Some 5 speeds and I think some newer cars can be towed 4 down(with speed/distance limitations I think?), but the 4eat and 5eat (I think?) AWD models can't tolerate it. Even using the donut spare comes with speed/distance warnings and requires use of the FWD fuse on some Soobs.


Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 30 July 2013 - 01:54 PM.


#28 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 01:52 PM

And then doing seventy five if pedal is down about five percent when hitting g gas or letting it off car does a gental vibrate and kinda feels like from between front seats

#29 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:23 PM

Towing a
Subaru behind a motorhome or a tow truck


........................SNIP.................................

AWD
automatic 4 and 5 speed vehicles should not be towed with any wheels
on the ground
. The vehicle can only be towed on a trailer with all
4 wheels off the ground and the transmission in park.

............................SNIP........................................

 

from; http://www.cars101.c...ind a motorhome


Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 30 July 2013 - 02:25 PM.


#30 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:48 PM

Well towing it would have kept it UN first gear.that could be why first and second are bad cause they use gear bands that touch each other. But honestly when I was changing fluids to narrow down problem it looked like the fluids had been recently changed cause of dampness around drain bolt from draining it

#31 nipper

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 02:54 PM

it is not unheard of for fluids to be changed before a sale to hide problems.



#32 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 03:30 PM

Well towing it would have kept it UN first gear.that could be why first and second are bad cause they use gear bands that touch each other. But honestly when I was changing fluids to narrow down problem it looked like the fluids had been recently changed cause of dampness around drain bolt from draining it

 

The wet clutchpack on that car needs the Duty Solenoid C to be open to un-pressurize the plates. That's the AWD system, the clutchpack and C solenoid control how much torque is transferred to the rear diff. Also, the rear diff on that car may have been Viscour Limited Slip - it might be bad now too.  With  no pump running and no TCU controlling the valves, the plates are in contact and the wheels are causing a bunch of stuff to turn with no fluid circulation so, everything heats up. Dunno if there could have been a pre-existing problem but, the tow didn't help anything.



#33 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 04:30 PM

I do know that when I deactivate the vdc problem gets worse. But looks like I'll bring it in to Kennedy transmission in brainerd MN. 300 to pull it apart to look asst it. 475 to put it back in way it was.

#34 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 04:52 PM

I do know that when I deactivate the vdc problem gets worse. But looks like I'll bring it in to Kennedy transmission in brainerd MN. 300 to pull it apart to look asst it. 475 to put it back in way it was.

 

DANG, VDC huh? - it doesn't have a clutch pack so, all that related stuff is wrong that I posted, I guess it's just the forward gear bands and possibly some gears that got overheated.



#35 CNY_Dave

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:02 PM

I think you should read up on the symptoms for failing center differential bearings, it is plausible they'd take damage from the rear wheels turning without the fronts turning, and it is not a terrible job to replace them. I'm not hearing anything that rules it out as a possibility.

 

Google this just as is:

 

subaru manual transmission center differential bearing

 

and pay attention to threads on nasioc. The VDC center diff is similar to the manual diff center diff.



#36 nipper

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:12 PM

2001 H6 VDC doesnt have a center diff, it is a clutch pack (Auto), so everything you said is correct. :D

 

And of course there is the possability that this was a dying transmission to begin with and thats why it ended up in an auto auction from a dealer.



#37 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 05:50 PM

Think m my shop should just be able to pull the first and second gear bands and replace them?? Cause of no burning fluid and no metal shavings the first and second gear bands could just be bad from being heated?? Cause its only those two gears giving me problems until I above 15mph or unless I floor it so it drops gears into bad second gear

#38 nipper

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:56 PM

I have never taken one of these apart, but all the labor in rebuilding a tranny is taking it down, taking it apart, putting it together and reinstalling it. The kit is fairly inexpensive in comparison. Unless there is a hard part damage, replacing just what is fired is dollar foolish, as there is no gaurentee that the next week reverse or third or forth will go. 



#39 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:20 PM

Ya but I just want it done enough that someone will buy it for two grand with the paper work. If I move the shifter in first gear it only vibrates once starting out. And then moving it to second while in second I can floor it without any problem. Then I move shifter to third n drive with no problem.its just starting in first and as it shifts to second

#40 nipper

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:28 PM

Well then investigate a used tranny for a flip.



#41 jgrimm

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 10:48 PM

Ha nearest used tranny is in Nebraska that I found for 1200 I live in Minnesota. Aster shipping mine a well re build it for 2200 anyways I'll post what the problem is once so tears apart

#42 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 11:46 PM

I think I saw one in Milwaukee for $745 at car-part.com



#43 Fairtax4me

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:27 AM

Transmission or center differential is toast. AWD cars can't be towed with two wheels on the ground and two on a trailer. 1 mile is enough to destroy bearings and chew up the clutches in the trans.

#44 CNY_Dave

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

2001 H6 VDC doesnt have a center diff, it is a clutch pack (Auto), so everything you said is correct. :D

 

...

 

?

 

The VDC auto has a center differential (much as the standards) and a small clutch that is designed to spin free, or lock the diff completely.

No clutch pack.



#45 nipper

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 02:30 PM

Hrmm will have to look it up in the FSm and see how it is arranged.



#46 nipper

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 02:35 PM

http://www.xccelerat...ransmission.pdf  

 

Ok it really isn't a differential in the traditional sense. It is a planetary gear set and a clutch pack of normal size (not a small one).

 

:D


Edited by nipper, 31 July 2013 - 02:47 PM.


#47 CNY_Dave

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:45 AM

A planetary gear set but without the external ring gear, just the sun gear and the planets with carrier.

It's almost more like a differential where power comes in one axle, and goes out both the ring gear and the other axle.

 

Looks like a smaller MPT clutch pack vs. what i thought it was, a single clutch.

 

I could have just opened up the package I have that contains the darn thing, but it's wrapped so nicely...



#48 nipper

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:29 PM

Yup almost like a diff, but for diagnostic purposes, would have a different set of noises then a regular diff. 

 

Heheh sometimes you just got to open the package and appreciate whats inside :)



#49 CNY_Dave

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 02:13 PM

But root point, the bearings are more prone to wear than on the non-VTD 4EAT, and it makes a noise similar to the worn center-diff bearings on the stick models.



#50 nhzero

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:12 PM

If you decide to junk the car, I'll pay the cost for dropping the engine and shipping it to me. I can't get my shop to repair my head gasket, and I can't find an H6 motor around here for anything...






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