Terry in Australia Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 G'Day Guys, by way of introduction, my name is Terry, and I live in Melbourne, Australia. I've always had an interest in Subaru's, but being a motorcycle enthusiast with a company supplied truck, I've never needed to own my own car. Recently though, my wife loaned her "spare" car (Hyundai) to our oldest son, so I decided that I need a car to drive to the store on a wet weekend or to visit my elderly parents in the country, and decided that a cheap Subaru would be ideal. After scouring our version of Craigslist all weekend, I came upon an ad for a 1995 Liberty (Legacy in the US, I think?) sedan in pretty clean condition with 168,000 miles and registered, for only $450.00. Bargain. I drove over and liked the car, so I bought it. The seller said that she'd had new belts fitted to the EJ22 engine on Friday (I've learned a lot here today....) and now the car won't start. The "mechanic" who did the belts at her place told her first that it was flooded, then that the crank angle sensor was shot, took his money and drove off. The engine turns over fine (well it did until she flattened the battery) but now it won't start. Coming from a motorcycle background (Interference engines) I assumed that the valve timing must be correct or else the pistons would be smacking into the valves, but having just learned (from this site) that the EJ22 in my Liberty is a "Non Interference" engine, it could well be that the "mechanic" stuffed up the valve timing when he replaced the belts, but just to cover all bases for when I drive the 50 miles back to the sellers house where the Liberty is still parked, I bought a new, genuine crank angle sensor for the princely sum of $115.00. Soooo, my intent is to ride over to her house next Saturday armed with a jump start pack, a new crank angle sensor, information on correctly setting the valve timing, and some tools. Apart from beer, what else should I take with me to get this thing to fire up? She told me (and I believe her) that the car ran really well before the belts, she only had them changed on the mechanics advice because there was an oil leak from a seal (cam seal?) behind the belts, and he suggested replacing the belts whilst he was at it. I know, it's a lengthy post and I apologise for that, I did check the FAQ's and I found some threads with similar questions, but I wasn't 100% sure that the symptoms were the same as mine. Any help from the collective genius of this forum would be appreciated, I'd really like to drive this car home, not tow it. Cheers, Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstone Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 subscribing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) I think you wasted the $115 on the sensor (hope you can take it back and get your money back) - it is pretty rare to have a crank sensor go - unless the "mechanic" managed to mash/break it... it is more likely that the timing is simply off - even one tooth off can/will cause a no start situation and that is where I would start - it is easy to get things one tooth off. Make sure the timing is set up correctly and go from there. take a light colored marking pen with you (a silver sharpie works well) in case the belt does not have the correct markings. You are also going to need some way of compressing and pinning the hydraulic tensioner as well - a large C-clamp (6" / 15 cm size) & a small allen wrench (1.5mm?) will work. Compressing the tensioner is a very s-l-o-w process - just a little bit at a time or you will damage the mechanism do not force it! when it is fully compressed, insert the pin thru the small holes, holding the piston in place. other tools you will need - socket set - 10, 12, 17, & 22 mm sockets at minimum, ratchet, screwdriver, breaker bar & possibly a cheater bar (for the crank bolt) remove the front accessory belts and timing covers (if so equipped - some people take them off permanently) remove the belt, (pull the tensioner out at this time to start compressing it) make sure the cams & crank are set correctly - hash lines pointing straight up (NOT the arrows!) - place the belt on the crank pulley, and mark where the hash line is - take it back off, and count 44 teeth to the left of the crank mark you made (looking at the belt as it would go on the car facing the front of the engine) and make a mark, then count 40.5 teeth to the right side of the crank mark, and make another mark. make sure the idler pulleys spin freely & smoothly - it is usually easiest to unbolt the small toothed pulley (down low on right side as looking at the engine) for reinstalling the belt. reinstall the fully compressed & pinned tensioner - do not pull the pin yet! making sure the tab on the back of the tensioner pulley is in the correct position for the piston to push against. the tensioner bolts do not need to be real tight yet, just snug. Reinstall the belt with the marks you made in the correct positions starting with the crank mark - they should all line up with the hash marks on each respective pulley. Make sure the marks stay where they are supposed to, and reinstall the small toothed pulley. once everything is back in place in the correct positions, adjust the tensioner towards the pulley by prying at the back end with a screwdriver and tightening down the bolts, you can then pull the pin from the tensioner. At this point you should be able to give the car a test start - dont run it for long, just long enough to be sure it will start & run. If it does, shut it down and finish putting the front end back together, clean up and take her home. Edited July 29, 2013 by heartless 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Nice writeup heartless! Agree--the new sensor probably won't be necessary. Terry in Oz--there's a helpful Endwrench article with pix & diagrams if you haven't seen it already: http://www.northursalia.com/techdocs/pdf/engine/timingbelt.pdf Go to "Timing Belt Replacement" PDF. Good luck, hope you get her home okay! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 He likely used the arrows not the hash marks. Use the hash marks on the CAM pulleys, and the one on the crank pulley is on the"ear" on the back, 180 off from the keyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 What Gloyale said. He probably has the crank 90° off time. Timing mark is on the back of the crank sprocket on the reluctor tooth. Luckily this particular engine is non-interference, so no damage done. Hope you get it running! Definitely a good deal assuming the "mechanic" didnt hose something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I have a 95, 2.2 motor like yours. My crank sensor went bad, but gave notice with an engine code, when a check engine light came on. It was difficult removing the old crank sensor. It had rusted itself, and and refused to come out. Even using penetrating oil, and PB Blaster, it refused to back out. I finally broke off the top of the sensor, then had to dig it out piece by piece. Still, as others have written, I think your problem is with the engine timing. The timing belt is not properly lined up on the correct marks. Re-do the timeing belt, and I bet it will start right up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry in Australia Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 G'Day Guys, thanks very much for that info, and yep, I thought it was a little "coincidental" that the sensor went to God at the same time as the "mechanic" did the timing, but I'll install the new sensor anyway, as I couldn't be bothered returning it. I've watched a couple of good youtube vids on how to replace the belts and line up the timing marks etc, (were they done by members here?) so I feel pretty confident that I can get it to run, fingers crossed. Thanks again, I'll report back when I go back with some tools. Cheers, Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Take an 8" C clamp with you to compress the tensioner. 22mm socket for the crank pulley. The rest is basic stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) Also don't forget to take a small drill bit or something like that, that can fit in the hole of the tensioner to keep it completely collapsed when installing it. Otherwise your not gonna get that belt on (as previously stated.) And you may need a chain style vise grip to hold the crank pulley in place to break the crank bolt free, especially of you don't have the special tool to hold it in place. You will need to use this to tighten the crank bolt as well. And once you have the belt installed and pull the pin and roll your belt around until you bring the cams buck up tot the 12 o-clock position. Just to make sure everything is in time and working freely. I NEVER just start the engine, I role that sucker around a few times, just make sure things are moving and working properly. Also it may look like your a half tooth off on timing once you roll it around (and no your timing belts wont be aligned on the belt, just make sure the crank and cams are) thats ok...it that 40.5 thing. Hope that helps Edited July 30, 2013 by Mugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy RallyGuy Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 And go very slow with the tensioner, they have a very small valve, if compressed too quickly it will become a paperweight. (The screw pitch is fairly aggressive, you should be able to feel the pressure at about 1/4 to 1/3 turn. When pressure builds, let it rest a bit) after the plunger if fully depressed, I like to use a quality small L-shaped allen key to hold it in place. *easier to grab while engine is still in the car than a drill-bit and not as sharp * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) Also don't forget to take a small drill bit or something like that, that can fit in the hole of the tensioner to keep it completely collapsed when installing it. Otherwise your not gonna get that belt on (as previously stated.) And you may need a chain style vise grip to hold the crank pulley in place to break the crank bolt free, especially of you don't have the special tool to hold it in place. You will need to use this to tighten the crank bolt as well. And once you have the belt installed and pull the pin and roll your belt around until you bring the cams buck up tot the 12 o-clock position. Just to make sure everything is in time and working freely. I NEVER just start the engine, I role that sucker around a few times, just make sure things are moving and working properly. Also it may look like your a half tooth off on timing once you roll it around (and no your timing belts wont be aligned on the belt, just make sure the crank and cams are) thats ok...it that 40.5 thing. Hope that helps Unless you have something to cushion the pulley from the chain (such as a section of an old belt), you run the risk of damaging the pulley grooves using this method - an extra large screwdriver or prybar thru the inspection port for the trans flexplate/flywheel works very well, and doesnt damage anything. No special tools needed. Edited July 30, 2013 by heartless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I put a bar agianst the frame rail and hit starter undose the crank bolt every time or lock crank with bar into flex plate sounds like timing off or feul pump stuck did it have feul preshure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Unless you have something to cushion the pulley from the chain (such as a section of an old belt), you run the risk of damaging the pulley grooves using this method - an extra large screwdriver or prybar thru the inspection port for the trans flexplate/flywheel works very well, and doesnt damage anything. No special tools needed. True....But I have been able to use it on the middle wide section of the pulley and no damage was done (road side repair).....I have never been successful with the whole bar through the inspection hole in the back. I just use the special tool, because its what is required to do the job properly, and makes life easier. But then again I do a ton of t-belts so I guess for me it pays to have all the right equipment, and I'm OCD like that. YEMV (Your Experience May Vary) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 yeah, if you do a lot of them, then it does make sense to get the special tool (but dont you have to pull the engine to use it? or do you have a different tool than my 90 FSM shows?) - but for those of us that only do this as maintenance on our own cars - not really necessary. the bar thru the inspection hole does work best if there are 2 people - one holding the bar, and one turning the crank bolt - but it can be done solo - just takes a little trail & error to get the bar in the right spot. I have also used the chain visegrips - but used a section of an old belt to cushion the pulley. used them on the cam pulleys before too - again using a section of belt for a cushion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry in Australia Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks guys, I watched a Youtube clip where a guy used a long breaker bar resting on the frame, and hit the starter to crack the bolt, and that is what I'm intending to do, and I thought I'd use a strap wrench to retighten it? Do I need a 6" or an 8" C clamp? On advice from the guru's on this site I bought a 6" clamp yesterday, do I need to take it back and buy an 8" clamp? Cheers, Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 he simply didn't install the timing belt with the correct marks or otherwise hosed the timing belt install. should be an easy fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugs Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 yeah, if you do a lot of them, then it does make sense to get the special tool (but dont you have to pull the engine to use it? No..It just slips down the front and then goes into the holes of the pulley. You do have to remove the radiator fans first though. There is a hole the middle of it where you slip in the 22mm socket and your set. If the engines is out (say for head gaskets) I just zap it off with my impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry in Australia Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks guys, any advice on the C clamp needed, 6 inch or 8 inch? Cheers, Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 6" c clamp will be fine or I also use my wood hand screw clamp. Great deal on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks guys, any advice on the C clamp needed, 6 inch or 8 inch? Cheers, Terry. i did mention 6" in my original reply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry in Australia Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Hey thanks Guys, I went over to the sellers place to get the Subaru going today. The crank angle sensor made no difference, so I dug deeper into the engine and saw that the "Mobile Mechanic" had set the timing around 45 degrees off. It took me awhile to get the timing spot on, but once I had the engine fired right up and I drove it the 50 miles back to my place, and it ran faultlessly. I'm a happy boy! Thanks again guys, you saved me a tow truck bill! Cheers, Terry. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 glad to hear you got her up & running! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Great to hear! Send us a pic of her when you have a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry in Australia Posted August 2, 2013 Author Share Posted August 2, 2013 Thanks guys, what I neglected to mention yesterday was that I managed to break the plastic tensioner on the aircon belt so I left it off, so I need to find another one, and I was losing the light by the time I got the timing done that I didn't replace the covers for the timing belt, is it necessary to replace them? The front of the engine looks kinda cool without them, but of course, I'll bow to the collective wisdom if you all think that's a dumb idea? Cheers, Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.