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5-Speed DR Rebuild Kits


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21 replies to this topic

#1 alaskaloyale

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 03:21 PM

I'm thinking about rebuilding the 5-Speed DR in my 88' GL because it is sometimes hard to get into gear and lurches a bit, also seems like a fun project for the end of my summer. I think it's the original transmission with 365K miles on it, so it could definitely use a refresh by now. I'm curious where you guys recommend picking up the parts. I haven't had much luck googling for a kit.

 

Thanks for the help :)



#2 skishop69

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:01 PM

You won't find a kit. Parts are direct from Subaru only on the manuals. I doubt the whole thing needs overhauling. What/which gears give you problems? If it's hard going in all gears and lurching, that's not a tranny issue, it's a clutch or throw out fork issue.



#3 alaskaloyale

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:52 PM

Third and first gear are definitely rougher than the others, so the transmission probably could use some work. It's good to hear that most of my problems are probably the clutch or throw out fork though, will be a much easier project to tackle first.



#4 skishop69

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:15 PM

If it's just 1st and 3rd, it's most likely the blocking rings. If were the clutch or fork, it would be all gears. If it's not grinding horribly, I would just order the blocking rings and put them in. if it is, you may have damaged the synchros as well. Chances of a bad bearing are slim to none unless you run it out of fluid.



#5 Gloyale

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 11:36 AM

If it's just 1st and 3rd, it's most likely the blocking rings. If were the clutch or fork, it would be all gears. If it's not grinding horribly, I would just order the blocking rings and put them in. if it is, you may have damaged the synchros as well. Chances of a bad bearing are slim to none unless you run it out of fluid.

 

I disagree.

 

Almost all issues I see in subaru 5mt trans are from the large roller bearing at the rear of the upper/input shaft.

 

To "rebuild" one of these I would plan on ordering that large bearing at the rear, the smaller front bearing for that upper shaft, and the output shaft seals for the rear and the 2 fronts.  It's a good time to replace the shift selector rod seal too.

 

Since 1st gear is haveing issues too, you may also want to replace the large bearing on the rear of the lower/pinion shaft too.

 

Both shafts, the large bearing at the rear is what keeps the shafts from walking fore/aft in the case.  When they walk, the shift forks push to slide a collar, and the shaft walks away from it, so you don't get the gear, or you barely get it without proper synchro action (rough shift)



#6 l75eya

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:04 PM

You guys seem to know transmissions well, and I don't mean to thread jack but I gotta ask;
I've got 75k on a dual range 5 speed. 1st 2nd and 3rd all engage fine but while driving in those gears there's a rattling, spinning sound kind of like a bad bearing sound.
If I push in the clutch while rolling in these gears it still makes the sound.
If I pop it in neutral and hold the clutch in, no noise.

If I'm on level ground and not moving and I let the clutch out in neutral, there's noise, the revs drop (a little), and the car will actually move very slightly forward.

4th and 5th are fine.

Sorry to jump in with a different topic, but I really hope I can get some good input on it.

#7 skishop69

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 09:31 PM

Agreed on the seals though I didn't mention them as I consider seals a 'normal' replacement item when I open up a high mileage box. If those bearings were going, I would think you would have fore and aft play in the shaft and shifting in all gears would be compromised if the play were large enough. Or, you would have play fore OR aft and then depending on which way, you would have problems with 1,3 & 5 or 2 & 4. I don't have a lot of experience with the 5MT, but I can tell you that in all the rebuilds of other manuals I've done, whether they were AWD, FWD, RWD or 4WD, individual gear grinding is always (almost...) a blocking ring itself or in combo with a synchro. I'm not discounting what you are saying, I'm just thinking out loud. Also, with fore or aft play, you usually have a rattle due to the shaft walking back and forth. It's easy to check once it's open though. Based on what you've see, what I've seen and what he's got, he's not going to know until he tears it down and looks. The bearings will be easy to check and obvious if bad. The blocking rings should have little grooves inside them running the inner circumference of the ring. You'll have to compare all of the blocking rings to see if the grooves are the same depth. Ones that are shallower are worn and not applying enough pressure to the beveled face of the synchro to slow the gear down enough to allow the synchro to mesh and shift properly.

 

On the note of I75ea.... Sounds like the input shaft or front main shaft bearing is going bad. Put it in 4th or 5th, engine running with the clutch in and see it the noise goes away. I believe (not 100%) that 4th gear is  a 1:1 ratio and locks the input shaft and main shaft together. It is/does with every other trans I've worked on. If the noise is not present in 4th, engine running and not moving but is doing the same with any other gear, it's the input shaft bearing. Of course, now thinking back I believe I'm wrong in that it's 4th gear specific for these trannys. Any gear will lock the input shaft and main shaft together because the aren't in line (front to back) with each other. The input shaft is on top, and the main shaft (or pinion shaft in the case of Subies) is under it. In this case, if it doesn't rattle in gear, clutch in and does rattle out of gear clutch in or out, then it would be the input shaft bearings Gloyale mentioned. Oy... My brainpan is starting to hurt. lol



#8 AKghandi

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 10:31 PM

its probably going to be easier, but more expensive, to replace it than rebuild it. D.C subaru in wasilla has low mileage D/R's for $350.  plus every other part you could ever want or need. and I do mean every single part imaginable, he has about 50 GL's.



#9 pressingonward

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:22 AM

I have a related question. I have a used D/R that I plan to put in my car and it has some end play on the input shaft.Is endplay typical for these transmissions?



#10 duke8988

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:00 PM

anyone ever have any problems loosing 2nd gear in these transmissions? i lost 2nd gear in mine 4 hrs after i bought it yesterday..... 



#11 skishop69

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:07 PM

Pressingonward: Yes, some end play is normal. I could find the exact specs if you needed them, but you would also need a dial indicator to correctly measure it. The one I have out in the shop has about 3/32"-1/8" up/down play and about 1/8" in/out. This tranny had no problems.

 

Duke8988: I haven't heard of any common gear problems with the the 5MT. The 4MT had 3rd gear issues which is why I finally did the 5spd swap on my Brat. Gloyale would probably know more if there were. What do you mean by 2nd gear went out?

 

Gloyale: I was hoping you'd expand more on what issues you see shifting wise when those bearings go out.



#12 duke8988

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:55 PM

I took off from a stop first shifted to second, all was fine till like 2-2250 rpm then it sounded like n axle shaft came out i stopped looked under car at shafts all looked well so i took off went to grab 2nd the shifter goes into 2nd position but no gear the other gears are fine

#13 bertmann73

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 01:16 AM

hopefully you dd not break anything. try getting to different RPMs and see if you can get it to slip in if it is the forks it will grab sometimes. seems to me like most problrms in the manual trannys are worn forks. i welded mine and ground them when i lost 3rd on my 4mt. especially if we are the guys who like to rest our hands on the shifter beetween gears causing the wear.

#14 duke8988

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:09 AM

I have tried everything i still have the 2nd gear slot but its like the tranny is in neutral

#15 ivans imports

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:19 AM

I have got super good at filing the syicros just right can be made to shift very good but must set the angles and debur it just right then shifts great. Have rebiult at least 50 of them now also have been hording DR cores have 15 now also install a 1/4 inch reverse shim behind the reverse idler this will make reverse 70 % stronger I use a brass washer 1/4 thick prevents reverse kickout



#16 ivans imports

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:22 AM

Duke pull drain plug look for teeth or meatal bitts on magnet also have seen the pin shear on shift fork and fork slip out of shifter slots inside trans all other gears work ?



#17 skishop69

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:54 PM

Huh.... For some reason it's didn't post my post at 7 this morning. Try again....  Sounds like either you broke the synchro, the actual gear or stripped the splines on the shaft. Any of these end in a do NOT drive scenario. If you're driving and one of the pieces jumps up into the gears, it's either going to grenade or lock up and destroy more parts. As Ivan said, drain the fluid and look for shiny lube or bits and pieces.



#18 duke8988

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:53 PM

Yea everything else works slick. No noises vibrations nothing

#19 duke8988

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:57 PM

Problem solved lol 2 5 spd dual range trannies!

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#20 ivans imports

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 09:25 AM

only 3 things on Dr are non repairabble 2nd gear cast to main shaft 1 gear cast to main shaft and reverse cast to main shaft everything else can be changed fairly easy because the main shaft always breaks they are hard to come by and very involved to change



#21 coxy

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 06:25 PM

Ivan you might also like to try the following we have had great success with on Rally cars over the years when rebuilding Transmissions with Warner type Brass Snycros we tape them up with masking tape and glass bead both the brass cone itself and the mating surface on the gear the satin finish it imparts works a r=treat in bringing back Syncro's to life on top of the reprofiling you already do.Good way to extend the service life considerably as they are not cheap components.



#22 pressingonward

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:38 PM

Pressingonward: Yes, some end play is normal. I could find the exact specs if you needed them, but you would also need a dial indicator to correctly measure it. The one I have out in the shop has about 3/32"-1/8" up/down play and about 1/8" in/out. This tranny had no problems.

 

If you could post the spec I would appreciate it. I've been trying to find a pdf copy of the 5 speed transmission section of the FSM, but I haven't had any luck so far. I do have a dial indicator. I haven't checked mine yet, but It has somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/8" up/down play.






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