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Outback hitch mounted winch power

winch

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21 replies to this topic

#1 wanhanlu

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:17 AM

I mounted a 3000# winch on the hitch of my Outback (found hitch winch mount for $39.00 at harbor frt) for light use while going to a campground. I go through a dirt and gravel road to reach campground. However, am stumped on wiring it to the car. It seems vehicle battery is too small for claimed full load 190 amp draw expected from the 1hp motor on winch. How do you handle that? I've seen some Foresters and Outbacks with winches in front and read about others with the winch in back. I know enough to not keep spinning the wheel and digging a hole for it when stranded in soft sand.

 

Not doing any serious offroading just need to get through soft sand road and the low tires will not grab at some points even partially deflated.

 

Can't figure out how to wire winch to battery in front of car and worried about the winch load. It seems the outback battery does not have the load carrying capacity 12amp hours for the winch. or does it?

 

I could just run one single jumper wire to the positive pole and just ground the winch to frame.

 

Any help will be appreciated.

 

thanks

wanhanlu

Attached Files


Edited by wanhanlu, 14 August 2013 - 12:17 PM.


#2 ShawnW

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:19 PM

A dual battery setup with two identical Red Optima type batteries would certainly work.  That would require a battery isolator from an RV type supplier but not hard to wire up.



#3 Numbchux

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:13 PM

That's certainly more amperage than your alternator can put at alone, but with the engine running, the battery should be able to deal with that for a few minutes at a time.

A Yellow top battery would be best for this as they are designed for medium load for extended time, rather than the short bursts of large load (700+ amps) that a red top specializes in.


But whatever you use, you will need a very large wire running the length of the car. And for best performance, a dedicated ground wire all the way to the battery would be best.

Look into automotive audio wiring kits. They will have a very long, very large wire, with a beefy fuse that might get you on the right track. Or you can get the wire alone almost anywhere with any welding supplies. You're also going to want a beefy disconnect so you can unplug it when not in use (basically any 4WD supply source has these).


A dual battery setup would be sweet, but IMO overkill for what you are doing.

#4 monstaru

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 10:18 PM

You had the sense to write this, but no sense to just look up winch wiring? This deserves a tongue lashing....

 

So, first off. You need at least twice the weight of a  vehicles size winch to operate properly. So, your almost 4k vehicle won't be very nimble being pulled by a 3k winch...

And if your argument is that you only need a "a little" help, I will tell you to piss off, and get a different hobby , cause you obviously don't know how to drive and should practice until you get it...

 

In other words. Fawkin learn how to drive......or, grow some balls.

cheers, or not



#5 spazomatic

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:12 AM

Wow monstaru. Look up the word "tact" and try to practice it a bit.

Wanhanlu, he is partially right though. You are going to be sorely disappointed with a 3k lb winch. It wont pull very hard, and the line speed will not be able to keep up with what you need more of in situations like you describe: momentum. In the soft stuff, keep your speed up and you'll usually be okay.
Not to mention that harbor freight tools and hardware are crap. Theres a reason its so cheap!
You could also peruse websites like Warn or Milemarker to find info on the specifics of wiring it all up.
Good luck

#6 MilesFox

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:00 AM

I would install a deep cell(marine/rv) battery of some sort in the trunk to power the winch, using a battery isolator to charge it.

 

I have run a marine battery as the main battery in my old subarus.

 

Suppose you use a higher capacity battery as the main battery, but install it in the trunk, so that the winch doesnt have to draw through 14 ft of wire the length of the car. 

 

Really, you could just carry around an already charged deep cell battery in the trunk not connected to anything, and just connect the winch to it as needed. And when not in use, plug it into the 12v socket in the trunk to keep up the charge. The battery should not overdraw the socket if there is no load on it.



#7 wanhanlu

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:44 PM

The 2013 Sub Outback 2.5i is  only allowed to tow 2700 # per the factory specs. Unless you reinforce frame you cannot mount a 9000# winch to  hitch or anywhere on it. Furthermore, It is my wife's subby, it is new and in warranty so I am not allowed any modifications. She is the one that wants to take her car to that particular campground in the desert. The hitch was installed so she could carry her bike. [The 3000# can be doubled with a snatch block. The vehicle does not weight in anywhere near 6k#.]
 
She just wants to do some light dirt and gravel driving (She's been watching too much Youtube  and Subaru ads). She does not want to take my Silverado 2500 Hd 4wd out there.  Some women are "obstinate". Don't marry one no matter how sweet she is. 
 
I've opted for a 690 CCA Marine Starting Battery (48#) mounted in back by tailgate and plugged (with a 10 amp fuse) into that 12volt plug to keep it charged up but disconnecting before using winch (as Milesfox suggests-Thank you). I use one with a 55 Minn Kota that sucks 55 amps flat out and it will run for 2.5hrs before I have to quit using it. I think It will provide juice for 45 minutes steady or 1 hour stop n go. I can, also, possibly, weld some conduit to frame under driver's door and run a single 4 ga wire (positive) to battery in trunk (unbeknown to her). The frame can supply the ground. Or I can ground the conduit and use it for ground. Any other surgery risks voiding new car warranty. I also think two more batts is overkill.
 
In my view, The trick is to not keep powering if not moving, that way you don't bury tires in a hole you cannot get out of.  If that and using brakes to keep all tires rolling won't work. then.. Shoot some marine rescue flares 500' up in the air and watch them parachute down. I figure the forest rangers will see that and send someone over. They've given me enough tickets for going offroad in my bike and truck on LA Crest Highway and Palmdale. They can see pretty far from their bird's nests. In meantime I will use that hitch/winch and a 15# danforth to try to back it out o de hole.
 
Monstaru you need to chill. Getting all bent up like that builds blood pressure and strains the heart by constricting the blood vessels. You really should chill. No point in getting a heart attack over a post.
 
Amazing the stuff married guys put up with to keep their honeys happy. Hopefully she won't get the urge to go barreling up and down Bear Mountain road in Colorado with her car.
 
Milesfox I owe you one.
 
PS: That winch pulled a 3,000#  sailboat and trailer up the boat ramp. So I am satisfied with it.

Edited by wanhanlu, 25 August 2013 - 03:08 PM.


#8 bratman18

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 05:43 PM

Just FYI, towing capacity and winching are two different things entirely.



#9 MilesFox

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:56 PM

T

 

 

I've opted for a 690 CCA Marine Starting Battery (48#) mounted in back by tailgate and plugged (with a 10 amp fuse) into that 12volt plug to keep it charged up but disconnecting before using winch (as Milesfox suggests-Thank you). I use one with a 55 Minn Kota that sucks 55 amps flat out and it will run for 2.5hrs before I have to quit using it. I think It will provide juice for 45 minutes steady or 1 hour stop n go. I can, also, possibly, weld some conduit to frame under driver's door and run a single 4 ga wire (positive) to battery in trunk (unbeknown to her). The frame can supply the ground. Any other surgery risks voiding new car warranty. I also think two more batts is overkill.

 

 

 

Milesfox I owe you one.

 

PS: That winch pulled a 3,000#  sailboat and trailer up the boat ramp. So I am satisfied with it.

Your appreciation is all i need. Thanx! :)



#10 wanhanlu

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:05 PM

Just FYI, towing capacity and winching are two different things entirely.

 

I am a little puzzled on this one.

 

You still need the frame support to handle the pull without bending the frame (Frame? what frame? Oh! the body is the frame?). I know you can exceed recommended by 1/5 or so but I don't get what you mean. ??



#11 MilesFox

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:11 PM

I'm sure you can winch up all 2 tons of loaded down subaru by its tow hooks if the winch can handle it, but this does not assume that the same car is going to hold 4,000 lbs of trailer in tow at highway speeds since tires and steering and traction play other dynamic roles besides the physical integrity of the mounting point.

 

Towing capacity refers to all of this and the strain the driveline can take and the power the car can deliver to tow in a safe and controllable manner. 

 

Tow ratings are intended for this, but not intended to tell you  how much you can tow before the hitch falls off.



#12 nipper

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 11:57 PM

Tow rating includes acceleration/braking on level ground and grades, along with the forces reacting on the handling of the vehicle, including people. the dynamic forces can easily be more then 5000 lbs the tow load and tow car as a system, going higher then that for braking from 60 mph. On a winch, even if you are suspending the car off a cliff, the load for the most part is the weight of the car plus whatever forces are required to get the car out of a hole/ditch at about 1-2 mph. The cable on the winch would probably break first before you can exceed the chassis of the vehicle. Wire rope Has a minimum diameter it can be bent without doing damage to the internal core of the wire rope (you can not see it).How the ropes are terminated have a big effect on the rating too. Unfrotunitly if the cable is Chinese I would not trust the cable rating as given.



#13 BEECHBM69

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:49 AM

I can, also, possibly, weld some conduit to frame under driver's door and run a single 4 ga wire (positive) to battery in trunk (unbeknown to her). The frame can supply the ground


I did some research when I was looking to run cable to the back of my truck to run my trailer winch. I was surprised at how big it needed to be. Granted, my truck is much longer than your Suby, but 4 ga probably won't do, and ground to frame definitely won't suffice.

Just my two cents.

Dan

#14 Uberoo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:13 PM

On my hatch I relocated the battery to the trunk to: A remove some weight from the front end, and B: easily power the rear mounted winch. I ran a single 1 gauge welding wire lead from the battery to the starter motor.A starter motor can draw roughly 100-600 amps for a short amount of time.I ran a 125A breaker and it would normally never pop unless the battery was weak.However a winch is trying to move the weight of the car+ whatever the car is stuck in,rather than just spin the engine like the starter.So you are gonna need a DAMN big cable to power the winch and travel the length of the car.

 

depending on where you get stuck the level of force to get out changes. I have been stuck in a mud hole and a fat guy on a big quad was all that was needed to pull me out,I have also been stuck in cement like mud up to the top of the tires and it took 2 full size trucks chained together to pull me out.



#15 wanhanlu

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 09:55 PM

I think I will use a slow blow 100 amp fuse (If I can find one). That way the winch can suck 190 amps for a few seconds before blowing the fuse.  Thanks. I don't plan to do any "The Gods Must be Crazy" lifting of the Outback..

 

When discussing winches I wonder if you should consider rolling weight versus static or hanging weight. I understand Some winches are rated to rolling weight and others to hanging weight. I have a couple of davits that require a 1200# winch to hang 500#  in the air.



#16 WoodsWagon

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 11:09 PM

I use the anderson quick disconnect plugs on all my vehicles and trailers. I've got a rear mounted one under my truck with a heavy positive wire running up to the battery. No fuse. The starter wire isn't fused either, so there are heavy un-fused circuits on the car to start with. Just make sure to route the wire so it won't chafe or get cut by anything as it passes through the body/frame.

On the ground side of things, don't just assume that if you tie it into the body it's good. The ground wires going between the body and the battery aren't that big because they're only meant to carry the accessory loads. The big wire coming off the battery goes straight to the engine block, and the engine is not grounded to the body with big wires either. So add on a bigger wire between the body and the battery if you use it as the ground path.

My truck for instance; the frame is not grounded. The body is on rubber mounts to the frame, and the engine is on rubber mounts too. There is no electrical connection between the two except for the brake lines. Which, as I found out with an inductive ammeter, carry all the current if you have lights/winches/ect "grounded" to the frame.

You can always use a snatch block with a smaller winch to move a heavier load. I've hauled my 4500lb truck up out of a stuck spot with my portable 2500lb reciever hitch winch. It's a WARN, and it's a POS because I've since shredded the PLASTIC ring gear out of it pulling dead weight.

The harbor freight 3k actually has pretty good ratings and I've been thinking of replacing the Warn with it rather than spending the $30 on another plastic gear and housing.

#17 wanhanlu

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:18 PM

Every once in a while they reduce the price on Harbor Freight 3,000 # winch to $49bucks. Add 20% discount to that and it comes out around 40 bucks.

 

I'll have to consider grounding the frame eventually. In my truck the frame is grounded so I do not need a batt wire run to trailer.  But, I have opted for the Marine Starting battery in back with fuses etc. as I indicated before.



#18 Uberoo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 03:46 PM

a 3000lb winch wont work in a single line pull with a 4000 lb vehicle stuck in something.You will stall the motor and burn out the contacts,wiring,and what ever else.the general rule of thumb is to multiply 1.5-2X vehicle weight.So a winch for a 4k vehicle would be 4x1.5-4x2=6-8K lb winch.

 

you could get 6K lbs out of a 3K winch using snatch blocks, but you half your line speed and half your available winch line.A typical 3K winch has about 50 ft of line,however the last 5 ft at least needs to stay on a roll.So your at 45 ft, that leaves you 22.5 ft to find something to anchor to-about as long as a full size truck,when your stuck that isn't much.Where I wheel if you get pulled out by someone even with a 20 ft chain at least there rear tires will be in the mud,The nearest tree might be 50 ft away...



#19 monstaru

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:02 PM

I don't believe in TACT, I believe in shock loading.
I believe in gaining skill.

Reading and hashing things to death whilst not understanding is not learning.
GO PRACTICE DRIVING. It is the only thing that is gonna help you. Unless you mount the proper size winch on your vehicle.
If it is your wifes, and under warranty, STay on forest service roads. Because you don't belong in the area you are talking about.

Having the capability to utilize your given tools is not easy if you don't even understand the concept.
I can see the winch cable snapping now. Hurting someone that has no business being there in the first place. Costing taxpayers tons of cash for the extraction ,and at the same time giving "wheelers" bad press.


Believe it or not, I am all for helping. Ask anyone that ACTUALLY knows me. Instead of people on here that are to damn sensitive to see it. I would say the higher heart rate is good for you. But I don't get it this way. lol
Literally a simple search on winches would have covered ALL of this info. Instead we have a bunch of engineers, that have "read" this , or "seen" this.
And a few that have used the wrong equipment and keep breaking it. The damn reason is because it is not meant to be used that way.DUH

So I'm the spardnubbin that has to say , "hey dumbass, buy the right equipment or don't put yourself in harms way?"
For fawks sake.

I got tired of living in a "PC" world a long time ago. I hope you hurt yourself just to tame the stupid.......

#20 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:31 PM

Ive  had many a year with real world experience with winches, the bigger the better, cheep brands don't hold up, we had a 3000 HF winch on a car and we pulled the free spool knob out and the spool rewound and caused a rats nest of cable on the spool not sure if the new model dos that this was 4 years ago, another item that needs used is a pulley, when used properly it will double your winch capacity , good luck, have fun and be safe Scott  



#21 wanhanlu

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 03:37 PM

I did some research when I was looking to run cable to the back of my truck to run my trailer winch. I was surprised at how big it needed to be. Granted, my truck is much longer than your Suby, but 4 ga probably won't do, and ground to frame definitely won't suffice.

Just my two cents.

Dan

Outback is about 14' long. Silverado 2500hd LB is 23' long. I think I can use 4ga wire and ground conduit to use as ground wire. Something to think about in the future. However, for now, I'm going to stick to Marine battery and no mods. Battery will not be connected to car through plug in back. If I need to chrge it I'll use a jumper wire.

All set to go. Will definitely refuse to go over rocks larger than 8" uphill, on Bear Mtn Rd or any other 45 degree hills (up or down). If need be I can rent an ATV or a Jeep. No sense in reinventing the wheel.

From What I see BLM is grading &/or paving all the interesting scenic rds for tourists. I guess they are getting tired of having to go rescue them. By the time I get there I might not need the winch. But she'll be back there just in case.

Hope link only posts:

Paved &/or graded

Thanks.

Edited by wanhanlu, 25 August 2013 - 03:38 PM.


#22 wanhanlu

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:05 AM

Well I spent 30 days in Utah running through all the backroads to see the sights because the Natl Parks were closed. The only access was through backroads. I discovered I hate gravel.. Give me a good dirt road. I love dirt! Gravel gets lodged in the disk brake pads and makes a racket.

 

The Subbie went through every road as long as there was clearance enough. Streams were not a big problem (most were under 15" deep) but a lot of cleaning resulted from the crossings. A few dirt roads were deeply rutted, so deep that the front bumper guard scraped and in some others I could not proceed for lack of clearance. Had to back off and out of a few trails. Crossed quite a few rivers and because of that spent many hours at the car wash getting red gook off the motor and underside of Subbie. A couple of times it took over 2 hours to get the red crud off the vehicle.

 

The gravel roads were a pain in the petunias. Because the gravel was packed by continuous track (tank thread) there were bumps about 3" high every 12" in some gravel roads. (Apparently they are starting to pave all the off road or OHV trails so tourists can drive their mustangs and corvettes on them. They still have to cross streams, But bridges are springing up over them, some of the streams were about 12" to 16" deep. The only way to go accross these gravel roads that were smooth in some places for no more than 20' was at 50 mph so the Tires were riding on tops of the gravel created tractor track bumps. The flying gravel tore up the plastic rocker panels. Plastic rocker panels do not belong on a vehicle that you advertize as able to transverse unpaved roads. That includes that Aussie Outback. 

 

Any way we had a grand time and took close to 7000 pictures. Hit all the places Valley of the Gods, Monument Valley, Arches, Zion, Hells backbone bridge n trail, Canyonlands (including all the oerlooks), Burr trail, Dixie NF, Capitol Reef, Escalante and even Valley of Fire in AZ, The  last 3 days we drove to Silverton in CO and drove through Mesa Verde. We met a lot of European tourists and practiced a lil French and a lil German. All spoke pretty good English (The did no want to hear us kill their language?)

 

Did not need the winch. It just left a few scraped on rocks on the way up.. The all wheel drive got us throught muck, mud, water and gook. Good thing those plastic rocker panel parts are cheap.. Next time they get taped over with blue tape and two coats of duct tape. That oughta handle the flying gravel. I did lose a tire to a cut on the side. Ya can't fry an egg without breaking the shell..

 

Next on schedule is Wyoming, Colorado, etc. The Subbie no longer smells like new.. No longer a virgin..


Edited by wanhanlu, 04 November 2013 - 12:09 AM.






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