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Clutch question...


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28 replies to this topic

#1 efseiler

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:24 AM

Hi,

    The clutch pedal on my 98 OBW no longer disengages the clutch.  This problem cropped up suddenly.  There are no signs of hydraulic fluid leakage.  The pedal play is very soft with greatly lessened resistance.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks,

Damien

 

 



#2 mikaleda

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:41 AM

A bad master or slave cylinder, my bet is the slave. Before you start replacing parts though make sure you fluid level is up and there is no air in the system.

#3 efseiler

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 04:29 PM

Well the fluid level was there...no signs of leakage.   I didn't think it was the internals (pressure plate, flywheel, etc.) but my suspicion was that those components may be getting a bit 'long in the tooth'. 

 

 

Is the slave the small one that sits on top?

 

 

Thanks,

Damien



#4 mikaleda

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:58 PM

The slave sits on the trans and is what pushes the fork. The master bolts to the firewall and connects to the clutch pedal.
The slave cylinders seem to go out more often than the master cylinders

There should be a way of testing it, but I don't know how.

#5 MilesFox

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:09 PM

Inspect the lines for rust. The lines typically rust through where the plastic clips secure them to the body.


Edited by MilesFox, 21 August 2013 - 06:09 PM.


#6 efseiler

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:49 PM

Well, it got towed to the shop today....I'm guessing it's the slave. 

 

I'll find out tomorrow...  



#7 Fairtax4me

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:27 PM

If the pedal returns all the way it's not a hydraulic issue. Probably a cracked release fork. They can crack near the pivot point and will flex rather than disengage the clutch.

#8 efseiler

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:03 AM

Well ok but the failure was somewhat gradual and not sudden.

 

 

When happens when other components fail...pressure plate, flywheel, etc.  ?



#9 mikaleda

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:06 AM

If the pedal returns all the way it's not a hydraulic issue. Probably a cracked release fork. They can crack near the pivot point and will flex rather than disengage the clutch.


That may not be always true, it takes a lot of hydrolic pressure to release the clutch, not so much to push the pedal back. I have seen several slave cylinders go out with the same symptoms as this one and the pedal returned just fine

#10 ivans imports

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:14 AM

broken parts fork or pp fingers needs to come apart



#11 efseiler

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 12:04 PM

Well the pedal returns fine it's just very soft...not very much resistance at all when pushed.

 

 

The failure was gradual but occured over the course of a few hours...another thing I noticed was the reservoir fluid has gone from a light yellow to almost brown.



#12 efseiler

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:27 PM

Just got back from the shop...the fork was cracked and bent.  Also the flywheel had uneven wear and that was why there was so much chatter/shudder.

 

New clutch kit...used fork...10 days of waiting and 600 bucks later, 'tis done.  (They had to take the engine out twice cuz they screwed up the first time.)  :grin:

 

 

Cheers!

 

--Damien



#13 Fairtax4me

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:19 PM

Used fork?!? Are you in the middle of Egypt (rhetorical) and there are no dealers nearby?!?
The clutch fork is a $35 part brand new. Pretty sure every dealer stocks them too because its a fairly common failure.

#14 efseiler

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:52 AM

Well...some of the mountains around here are shaped almost exactly like them (when viewed from the correct angle).  But we aren't Jihadists.

 

Thirty-five bucks saved is thirty five-bucks earned.  Sometimes only cold, card cash can separate factories from parts anyway and all I make is $1.37 an hour!

 

Allah Akhbar!  :ph34r:

 

--Damien



#15 ivans imports

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:23 AM

Take off slave cly remove the piston clean around the bore with 600 grit snadpaper or hone lube with brake lube reassemble and reinstall drain syestem and use dot 4 fliud it has higher boiling point so works better on hot engine. have been finding the slave sticks half way back up and will not let fliud move into the slave. Have fixed 4 or more in last cupple months is mostly peadal sticking to floor problem



#16 Fairtax4me

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:39 AM

Not saying I've never done the same, but going with used on certain parts can end up costing a lot more in the long run when they fail again. Ive had plenty of gambles wih used parts and most of the time they work out fine. But the clutch release fork is cheap enough I wouldnt even consider used. The forks wear out and break with age and use. Unless you're in a position to pull the engine or trans yourself and replace it again (free, except for a few hours of your own time), saving $35 could end up costing you another $500 in labor 6 months down the road if/when the replacement fork cracks.

#17 efseiler

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:32 AM

Well...they guarantee their work.  :-/  Ain't much I can do...



#18 efseiler

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 05:11 PM

Take off slave cly remove the piston clean around the bore with 600 grit snadpaper or hone lube with brake lube reassemble and reinstall drain syestem and use dot 4 fliud it has higher boiling point so works better on hot engine. have been finding the slave sticks half way back up and will not let fliud move into the slave. Have fixed 4 or more in last cupple months is mostly peadal sticking to floor problem

 

No it was a cracked fork...he showed me it.  That clutch really chattered so years of it caused the fork to crack prematurely.

 

 

The other theory is nuclear decay played a role.  If you've ever stared at a tornado and wondered how 'they' can fit 200 mph winds into such a tiny space...you'd believe it!

 

 

Cheers!

 

--Damien



#19 Fairtax4me

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 12:22 AM

Hopefully it holds up.
They tend to crack at or near the pivot point. Years of use cause wear at the pivot which causes thinning and "work hardening" of the material which leads to cracking. Basic metal fatigue at work.
Someone posted a picture not long ago where the dimple for the pivot had worn through and the pivot stud actually went through the fork. The fork looked almost like it had a bullet hole in it.

#20 bratman18

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 05:23 AM

I still don't get the prices of clutch jobs. The shops I go to, which are both Subaru specialists, do a clutch job for $200 labor. And parts are usually around $200. 

 

But good to hear they guarantee their work.



#21 efseiler

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:07 AM

Hopefully it holds up.
They tend to crack at or near the pivot point. Years of use cause wear at the pivot which causes thinning and "work hardening" of the material which leads to cracking. Basic metal fatigue at work.
Someone posted a picture not long ago where the dimple for the pivot had worn through and the pivot stud actually went through the fork. The fork looked almost like it had a bullet hole in it.

 

It should...for what it's worth, it was a 'Valeo' branded clutch kit.  I think that kit is also branded as a 'Luk' and a couple others.

 

I'm guessing those all come out of the same factory...

 

At least the chatter is finally gone!   :headbang:

 

 

--Damien



#22 heartless

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:34 AM

Well...they guarantee their work.  :-/  Ain't much I can do...

 

They might guarantee the work, but I doubt they guarantee the parts - especially used parts.....just sayin...



#23 efseiler

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:03 PM

They might guarantee the work, but I doubt they guarantee the parts - especially used parts.....just sayin...

 

 


Well...I'd rather have a used Subaru genuine part in there than an iffy aftermarket one.  I've already had back luck with Chinese stuff.



#24 heartless

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 07:40 PM

Well...I'd rather have a used Subaru genuine part in there than an iffy aftermarket one.  I've already had back luck with Chinese stuff.

 

No one was suggesting you should buy cheap chinese iffy aftermarket junk...

 

Used fork?!? Are you in the middle of Egypt (rhetorical) and there are no dealers nearby?!?
The clutch fork is a $35 part brand new. Pretty sure every dealer stocks them too because its a fairly common failure.

 

I do believe that Fairtax was referring to Subaru Dealers in the above statement...

I personally would have gone with the brand new, $35 genuine Subaru clutch fork and been done with it for a very long time.

 

Dont know what you spent on the used one, but it is already partially worn - how long will it hold up? Pretty hard to say...



#25 efseiler

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 06:49 AM

No one was suggesting you should buy cheap chinese iffy aftermarket junk...

 

 

I do believe that Fairtax was referring to Subaru Dealers in the above statement...

I personally would have gone with the brand new, $35 genuine Subaru clutch fork and been done with it for a very long time.

 

Dont know what you spent on the used one, but it is already partially worn - how long will it hold up? Pretty hard to say...

 

I hear ya...but it isn't my call.  Those guys know right away what a good part is and besides a good driver should be able to anticipate failures months (sometimes years) in advance.

 

You'll get subtle little warnings...believe me...it's not very difficult to get insurance like that.

 

 

Cheers!

 

--Damien






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