Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

just bought a 96 legacy 2.2 L wagon. A few questions


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Grasshopper2.2

Grasshopper2.2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Flint Hills, KS

Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:09 PM

So I just bought a legacy 2.2 l wagon,(my third one) its a 96' with 96,000 miles, automatic, manufactured in 08/95(OBDII).

 

First Off- this thing is clean, and seems very well cared for and is the first automatic I've owned.

 

- the temp gauge usually rides under the cold mark or right above it and occasionally will get up to normal operating temp, then go back down.  I have replaced the thermostat with a Subaru thermostat(it had a small aftermarket one in it) with no success on fixing it. maybe a temp sensor? 

 

- also have been noticing a lot of clicking and some chirping in the dash gauge cluster area that I haven't noticed on my other legacy 2.2 5sp wagons.  AC clicks ALOT and you get a little boost of power when the ac clicks off.  It does this funny fast triple churp from the dash gauge cluster area when you mash on the gas in a high gear when going up a hill or something.  No biggie, just curious if this is common.  I can deal with clicking for rockin AC lol..

 

- had some shuttering on tight corners on the test drive, but disappeared after 30 minutes of driving.  I suspect it had been sitting for quite some time and the clutch plates were a little gummed up, and broke free after moving around a bit.  Not worried about it.

 

-shifts a little rough from 1'st to 2nd when it has set for over 5 hours and a little slow from 2nd to 3rd.  After a few minutes of driving it shifts smooth.  When I got it the fluid was low and I added some to get it to the full mark.  I am considering changing the trans fluid and even adding some TransX.

 

-noticed some gear oil around where the driveshaft connects with the rear diff.  Its not a whole lot and isn't dripping.  I suspect the rear pinion seal, I have checked the rear diff fluid and it seems fine.

 

-noticed some gear oil maybe ATF in that funny pit area on the auto trans straight back from where the dipstick for the front diff is.  Not dripping or having to add fluid or anything like that.  Miffed on this one

 

-she sings/whistles form the rear passanger tire area when at a stand still in park, and when moving, it's just more noticeable when stopped.  I think I have localized this annoying noise to the fuel pump?  So I'm thinking I might throw a new one in, cuz high pitched noise like that drives me nuts haha.

 

-has the rumble feature when in drive at a standstill with your foot on the brake.  way worse when the ac is on and seems worse after the car has been driven some distance.  I understand this is a common feature and am not to worried about it, just slip her into N if it is bothering me.

 

no check engine light is on, and she drives amazingly well and doesn't leak oil.

 

Hope that's not to much at once, just trying to be specific and thorough as some problems could be related to each other.



#2 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,626 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 24 August 2013 - 11:51 PM

Lots going on there. Sounds like the car is more than worth the time to keep it in good shape though.

Temp gauge reading low is probably corrosion on the spade connector for the temp sensor. It's the single wire sensor. Hidden under the wiring that goes under the intake manifold below the PCV valve/IACV area.

AC compressor kicking on and off is pretty normal and you will feel the power difference when its on. Might want to get a set of gauges on it and check the charge level though. If its low the compressor will cycle more often than it should and can be damaged.
Not sure about the chirping from the dash, possibly the AC belt is loose and is slipping a bit when engine speed jumps up during downshifts?

The 4EAT is known for rough 1-2 and 2-3 shifts when cold. There are some kits that claim to fix the issue, but I'm not sure how successful they are. Best thing is to keep clean fluid in it. TransX may help. I had tried Lucas something or other (Trans-fix?) in my 95 and it seemed to help the cold shift issue.

Rumbly idle can actually be caused by cheap aftermarket front axles. A set of Subaru greens should help that.

Not sure about the whine, but if its comig from the fuel pump that's bad. I've never been able to hear the pump over the engine in any of the Subarus I've driven. Pull the cover behind the right rear seat and give a good listen with a stethoscope to confirm if its the pump. Could just be a loose or bent heat shield rubbing on the exhaust pipe.

Gear oil on the rear diff from the pinion seal is pretty common. I see that a lot on these cars. Doesn't ever look like a major leak though, just enough to get everything "damp" looking.

#3 Grasshopper2.2

Grasshopper2.2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Flint Hills, KS

Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:01 AM

Thanks for the response that helped a bunch and sorry I realize that was more like twenty questions lol, got a little carried away there.   

 

Should i just try to clean the corrosion off the temp sensor connector?

 

what kind of gauges do i need to check the charge of the AC? yeah good idea to check to see if the chirping noise is a loose belt.  It doesn't really do it during downshifts,  more like when its in top gear and you romp on, but not hard enough to make it downshift. 

 

I think a transmission fluid change is gonna happen tomorrow with possibly some transX.  Will the cold shift issue cause any damage to the transmission over time? and if the fluid change doesn't fix it how much worse will it be in the winter? 

 

 I will put  a new fuel pump in very soon.  Are the aftermarket fuel pumps ok to use? I actually did take off the fuel pump cover and gave it a listen(not with a stethoscope tho), pretty sure that's it. 

 

 New Subie front axles will definitely be in order some time down the road, probably gonna roll with it for now..

 

Going to just forget about the pinion seal for a while, unless it starts to become a problem and start thinking about doing my first DIY timing belt+ job..

 

Again, much thanks, that helped a lot. 


Edited by Grasshopper2.2, 25 August 2013 - 01:09 AM.


#4 heartless

heartless

    Do YOU Subaru?

  • Members
  • 2,649 posts
  • Central Wisconsin

Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:12 AM

i have a 1990 with the 4EAT - in winter, depending on how cold it is (and it can get really cold here in northern WI) it takes it a while to warm up enough to shift nicely.

there are set temperatures for the ATF for certain gear changes (one for 2-3, and one for 3-4) so it can take a bit to make those gear changes. and yeah, it does shift a bit abruptly from 1-2 when cold, softer after getting fully warmed up. Depending on outdoor temps, i usually let it sit and warm up for 5 to 10 minutes before leaving to minimize the longer intervals between shifts.

 

My car has over 234K on it, and still drives nice - so dont be too alarmed by the odd shifting patterns - just go a bit easier on it until it is fully warmed up.

 

And make sure all 4 tires are the same brand/type, and are about the same wear - they all need to be within about 1/4" circumference of each other to avoid problems with the trans.

 

For your timing job - get a full kit that includes the idler pulleys (2 smooth, 1 smooth cammed, & 1 toothed), front seals (2 cam, 1 crank, & oil pump o-ring), waterpump and belt - ebay is a good source for those - "the import experts" is the seller most frequently used, "mizumoauto" is another (I have used mizumo kits several times on multiple vehicles with no issues, other than the bolts for the 2 smooth idler pulleys being too long in the shoulder on the first gens - replacement pulley (2nd gen + version) is shallower than the 1st gen original where the bolt goes thru - this is a 1st gen issue tho, 96 should have no problem).

 

you can try cleaning the connection for the temp sensor - "normal" range should be just a little below the halfway point. replacement sensor is pretty cheap for that one if that doesnt fix the problem. Are you sure there is no air in the system? these cars can be a little difficult to burp completely.



#5 Grasshopper2.2

Grasshopper2.2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Flint Hills, KS

Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:08 AM

Thanks, that really helps. 

 

I'm gonna change out the transmission fluid today since I have no idea when it had last been changed. 

 

I'll try cleaning the temp sensor, and look up how to burp the coolant system as that could very well be the problem, I guess.

 

For the timing belt job, I was thinking about ordering the ebay kit with everything you described, but getting the gaskets, seals, and o rings from Subaru. 

 

All four tires are the same brand, tread, and wear. 

 

I appreciate the responses you guys have helped me so much.



#6 heartless

heartless

    Do YOU Subaru?

  • Members
  • 2,649 posts
  • Central Wisconsin

Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:42 AM

sounds like a good plan to me. :)

 

Good Luck and keep us posted on how things progress.



#7 uniberp

uniberp

    mpergielwalkermi

  • Members
  • 633 posts
  • Walker, MI

Posted 25 August 2013 - 01:02 PM

Thanks, that really helps. 

 

I'm gonna change out the transmission fluid today since I have no idea when it had last been changed. 

 

I'll try cleaning the temp sensor, and look up how to burp the coolant system as that could very well be the problem, I guess.

 

For the timing belt job, I was thinking about ordering the ebay kit with everything you described, but getting the gaskets, seals, and o rings from Subaru. 

 

All four tires are the same brand, tread, and wear. 

 

I appreciate the responses you guys have helped me so much.

 

I'd just replace the 3.3 quarts that drain when you open the drainplug. If it's brown, keep changing it or pump it out.

If the fluid is clear, you may be in for more fixes, clutch packs and solenoids and such.  Clear fluid has probably been changed inside 40k.

 

A fluctuating temperature is discomfiting to me. I can stand it if it is steady an a little high, which means at least the thermostat is working and there are no air pockets. Fluctuations usually mean gas bubbles, which means a leak, if only intermittant under varying load conditions.

 

Even so, 96,000 miles is nuthin.'


Edited by uniberp, 25 August 2013 - 01:03 PM.


#8 Grasshopper2.2

Grasshopper2.2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Flint Hills, KS

Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:17 PM

Well, I pulled the plug on the transmission pan yesterday and to my surprise 5 quarts of murky greenish/brown fluid came out( I was expecting 3)?  When i drained the motor oil after purchasing the car it was this same strange color, which concerned me a bit.  I had just never seen oil of that color at all, so i took it to our trusted mechanic and he thought that someone had maybe put leak detector dye in it.  So when i drained the trans fluid yesterday and it came out looking just like the motor oil (with possible dye in it),  I decided to get out the black light and see if it would glow.  Sure enough it was glowing bright neon yellow, so i tried some new ATF and it didn't light up at all.  So the motor oil and the ATF both had leak detector dye in them?

 

I replaced the ATF with 5 quarts to get it to the full mark on the dipstick.

 

Replaced the rear diff fluid with lucas 75-90w.

 

The Coolant was low, so I turned on the car took off the radiator cap and bleeding screw and added until full, went for a short drive, then parked on a slope overnight to allow coolant to drain into the motor.  This morning I started the car, pulled off the radiator cap(it was not full) and bleeding screw, topped off with Coolant again.(a little confused how to burp the system).

 

Located the Coolant Temp Sensor and ordered one from Subaru. 

 

Drove to work 1 mile.  Shifting nicely.  Got off work and drove 1 mile to the beer store and back.

 

Now I have a CHECK ENGINE light on? 

 

A little bummed by this.



#9 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,626 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:22 PM

Get the codes scanned, post the codes here and we can help figure out the best options for repair.

5 quarts is a lot of fluid for one of these transmissions. It should only be 3.5-4 for a drain and refill. It may be overfilled and that can lead to problems. Fluid level should be checked with engine running and warm in park after shifting through all gears.

#10 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Members
  • 4,656 posts
  • Texas

Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:12 PM

someone may have added a wrong oil to the tranny. You should consider doing 2-3 more drain/fill cycles. Check the front diff too in case someone put transmission fluid in there.

#11 Grasshopper2.2

Grasshopper2.2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Flint Hills, KS

Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:45 PM

Hopefully I can get it scanned tomorrow, and post the codes! 

 

that was way more fluid than I was expecting.  After refilling with 4 quarts it was still below the low mark so I added more went for a drive to warm up the engine and cycle it through the gears, got home, shifted through the gears, checked the fluid, it was still a bit low, added more for a grand total of 5 quarts to refill her to the full mark(same as what came out)?  Its got a hot and cold marked on the dipstick, I'm filling to the full dot on the Hot. 

 

I've checked the front diff using the dipstick on the pass side and it looks like clean gear oil, and its right below the full mark. 

 

The fluid that is on the dipstick for the oil and for the ATF both light up neon yellow with a black light.  I checked on my other 96' legacy with black light and the fluids don't respond to the black light at all.  must be leak detector dye?

 

How do I post a photo?



#12 heartless

heartless

    Do YOU Subaru?

  • Members
  • 2,649 posts
  • Central Wisconsin

Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:36 AM

How do I post a photo?

 

Easiest way is to upload to a photo hosting site, like photobucket, flickr, or similar. then copy & paste the url from them here.



#13 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,273 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:09 AM

first, a drain and fill on the trans should only remove 3.5 - 3.75 qts.

maybe a little more if the front end is up in the air, but not much.

 

and the 3.5 qts is only about 1/3 of the total fluid in the trans.

3 drain and fills will remove most of the old fluid, but not all.

a fourth d&f will only remove a little more of the old fluid.

 

and finally, the hot and cold markings on the trans dip stick are with the engine running.

hot markings for hot ATF, and cold for cold.

the difference between L and F is about a pint, not a qt.

the dip stick is hard to read, check both sides.

after you remove it and wipe it down, WAIT before you re-insert it.

give the fluid in the dip stick time to drain back into the trans.

 

most folks have trouble with the dip stick reading, full when it is not.


Edited by johnceggleston, 27 August 2013 - 09:10 AM.


#14 Grasshopper2.2

Grasshopper2.2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Flint Hills, KS

Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:41 PM

Had my buddy scan it for me, here is the code:

 

P0106

Map Sensor

Manifold absolute pressure

barometric pressure out of range.

 

It cleared, and my check engine light is off now.

 

My temp gauge still  won't climb above the C.  He suspected that I have air in the system.  I have a Temp Sensor on the way, but i'm not confident that will fix my problem, and am leery of driving it with the temp gauge not working.

 

I will do another trans drain and fill in the next day or so and see how much comes out, hopefully only 4 quarts this time, idk  what is going on with it.

 

anyone have a link for how to burp the coolant system?

 

Much appreciated.



#15 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,626 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:47 PM

MAP sensor codes are most often caused by a loose or cracked vacuum hose going to the MAP sensor.
The sensor is mounted on the passenger strut tower, and has a solenoid right next to it. Check the line from the sensor to the solenoid, and from the solenoid to the engine. That hose may run to a T that also goes to the fuel pressure regulator. If so check the hose to the FPR as well.

#16 Grasshopper2.2

Grasshopper2.2

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Flint Hills, KS

Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:17 PM

Su bah roo'n, thank you so much! I just ran outside and checked it out and sure enough while I was searching for the coolant temp sensor I must have disconnected one of the vacuum hoses that goes to the engine, oops. Got it hooked back up and hopefully all is well.  That helped tremendously, back to work now. I'm gonna be day-dreaming about Subaru's while I paint lol.


Edited by Grasshopper2.2, 27 August 2013 - 01:30 PM.


#17 dballs

dballs

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 56 posts
  • Western Ny

Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:35 PM

I had a 96 2.2 and ran it from 120,000 to 318,000 miles, It was an awesome car. This make model and year happens to be exempt from state emissions OBDII inspection if they plug it in at inspection time in your state. The computer completely clears its self when you shut the key off every time so the Monitors are never "Ready". Just something to keep in mind when you have a light on at inspection time, just clear it and pull it in the shop.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users