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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Has anyone been wanting to see inside one of these?


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35 replies to this topic

#1 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 12:45 AM

So, I dont know if anyone has ever wondered what these looked like on the inside, but I figured I would post it for anyone that has never taken apart a manual tranny before. This is a 5sp D/R. Sometime next week I'll post pics of what the Full time 4wd tranny looks like.

Posted Image

#2 Ratty2Austin

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 12:51 AM

OhoOHO!HH!!!!!

I have a big request!!!! can you PLEASE find out if the stub shafts on the diff, between the full time tranny (should be 25 spline, "turbo") and the N/A (23 spline, the one in the picture) are interchangable!???

(mission= find out if you can make a FT4wd D/R tranny fit ea81 axles, aka 23 spline output shafts)

that would be THE most helpful thing that dissasembeling those two trannys can bring us!
thanks a bunch ahead of time :banana:

#3 carfreak85

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 01:01 AM

NO NO NO NO!!! The most important thing you can do is to see if the front and rear diffs are the same. If they are, then we can put LSDs in the tranny and have an STi style drivetrain!

#4 Subadoom

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 03:13 AM

I have checked in a 4 speed D/R and the diffs are different. I dont know if the 5 speed D/R if the same.

-Robert

#5 GLCraig

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 03:27 AM

i still have nightmares from having to tear down a few dozen of those.


To answer a few questions no the front and rear diff are not the same. Even a EA71 Front diff is a little bigger then a rear diff. If you want to build a FT4WD tranny you could probably mate a transfer case from an RX transmission to non-turbo D/R 5-speed. it's been about 7 years since i did a tear down so I can't remember evey detail. Just remember to swap the gear the drives the transfer set too.

#6 Hondasucks

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 04:14 AM

Well, for those of us that dunno what all the parts do, I took the time to label the above diagram. Feel free to correct me if you see anything wrong. The one thing I didn't do was label which of the gears were high and low range, since I couldn't quite tell the power flow just from looking at the picture...


AND SINCE THE ATTACHMENT limits for this thing SUCK EGGS I wasn't able to make it under 50k and still be readable, so tomorrow when my taters are less irked, I'll save it to my photo directory and link it from there, but it should be a very informative addition to the USRM :-)

#7 VaporTrail

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 07:49 AM

Austin,
I believe Rguyver had done the stub shaft swap a while ago. so he could use std ea81 axles on a RX tranny... that's not his latest project though..... so not sure about the FT4WD one..... but definitely on the early RX D/R

#8 edrach

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 08:44 AM

OhoOHO!HH!!!!!

I have a big request!!!! can you PLEASE find out if the stub shafts on the diff, between the full time tranny (should be 25 spline, "turbo") and the N/A (23 spline, the one in the picture) are interchangable!???

(mission= find out if you can make a FT4wd D/R tranny fit ea81 axles, aka 23 spline output shafts)

that would be THE most helpful thing that dissasembeling those two trannys can bring us!
thanks a bunch ahead of time :banana:


Austin, another way to accomplish that is to have CVaxles of Ocala make you custom axles with the correct inner spline count.

#9 ThreeEyedBandit

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 11:31 AM

The low range gears are the first set of four gears right after the input shaft,right above were the diff was.


Matt

#10 Sweet82

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 01:44 PM

NO, NO, NO, The most importent thing is to design a LOCKER for that mess!:confused:

And throw in some gear reduction while your at it?:D

Please, Please, Please!

Glenn,
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#11 Turbone

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 02:52 PM

In hoping not to sound to stupid here, but if you had a locker front end, how would you be able to steer? I know what happens to my rear end with the welded diff when I turn, so I can imagine what a locked front end would be like :confused:

#12 baccaruda

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 03:44 PM

quiet you! we don't need any of that common sense stuff interfering with progress! :banana:

I'd like to know how feasible it is to turn a 3.7 RX trans into a 3.9 or 4.11 RX trans? pretty easy i'd bet?

#13 carfreak85

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 05:42 PM

Thats what I wanted to know!!!

#14 Adam N.D.J.

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 08:27 PM

Ohkay, now lets see you put it back together. Hehehehe. Looks almost exactly the same as a 4spd D/r, with the exception of the two gears at the very back of the shafts (5th gear sets).

#15 the_bard

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 08:58 PM

Looks kinda pretty. Someone wanna tell me how it works, now? :-p

#16 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 23 April 2004 - 09:02 PM

Wow, guys, I didnt know this was gonna be that popular. First off, I'm not sure about the stubs being interchangable, but, lemmie get the other tranny apart.

What I am planning on doing is putting the shorter low gear, and 3.9 diff out of this one into the F/T 4wd one, so I can use it with my Superswampers, and have FT 4wd awesomeness. I am concerned about the pinion gear actually being a part of the secondary shaft. We'll see what I come up with on monday.

AS FAR AS AN LSD. does anyone want to sell me one to see if I can do it? :brow:
When I took apart the tranny, I was suprised to see there is a lot of room around the diffy, so the potential is there. Unfortunately you cant flip the diff like in a volkswagon and get a rear engine subie.

I'll send pics of the F/T like a said when I get it apart. Getting parts for these trannies is a SOB btw, you can only get the brass parts from the dealer, and they only sell them individually, not as a kit.

As for putting this back together, I am rebuilding it in my manual drivetrain class, if anyone wants like, uber details about how it works, or how to assemble/dissasemble/modefy these transmissions when I am all done, I'll write up a thing for the USRP.

#17 overkiller

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 01:02 AM

Is there room around the diff for bigger lo range gears? I would love a deeper low range.

#18 Adam N.D.J.

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 01:29 AM

Yeah, I rebuilt my 4spd D/r in my manual trannies class, it was pretty fun.
This post was also the motivation that I needed.

I now know EXACTLY how a FT4WD tranny works!!!!

Yep, I taking apart a FT4WD so that I can swap the stubs so it can be used in an EA81. I don't like the idea of getting custom axles made cause if one breaks, then you run into the problem of haveing to have a new one made to replace it. There are some things that I would just rather have off the shelf.

#19 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 01:38 AM

actually YES there IS... because the way it works is its 2 sets of gears, thats why low makes so much whining. First you have a set of 1 to 1 gears to a secondary shaft, and then it gears back across to the low floating gear, and thats where the reduction is. when in high it just bypasses straight thru from the input shaft to the rest of the floating gears. Kinda like how "hi" gear is on a normal transmission. SO in theory, you could double up these reduction gears, and get somethin crazy like 2.8 to 1. The only problem is that this would require a 100% custom input shaft, and a 100% secondary Low shaft. but the floating gear and the rest of the tranny would be ok.

Funny enough subaru transmissions are nothing like a normal tranny, because Hi gear does not go straight thru, but rather is also a floating bevel gear, just like the rest, because its the counter shaft that drives the ring gear on the differential

#20 Aldoat

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 01:47 AM

OK, these are probably stupid questions and I ask forgiveness from the more learned but would like to know if a FT4WD tranny can be mated to an EA81 directly? Without the need for an adaptor? I understand the stubs are different and would go the route of having special axles made (including spares) but could it be used in a Gen II Brat (86)? What models would be a source for the tranny and how much modification/fabrication would be involved?

#21 Adam N.D.J.

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Posted 24 April 2004 - 01:55 AM

All EA8* series engine and tranny's will swap between each other, same bellhousing on them all. This also includes the ER27, which is just an EA82 with 2 more cylinders.

It can be put into an 86 Brat without too much trouble. You can find these tranny's in late 80's EA82's, mostly GL-10's and Turbo cars. The RX got a D/r version of this tranny.
To fit it you will need make up trans mounts, or make a new trans x-member. You will also need to either have the stoock driveline made longer, or make the mounts and use an EA82 driveline. If you make the mounts for the EA82 one though, it's the right length.
There is some debate on the clutch stuff, and I'm not too up to speed on that, so someone else will need to fill in.

#22 Subi81

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 10:28 AM

You da man, awsome pic, wish I could have found time to tear apart my D/R 4 speed.

Awsome

#23 Alexx

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 11:24 AM

So, I dont know if anyone has ever wondered what these looked like on the inside, but I figured I would post it for anyone that has never taken apart a manual tranny before. This is a 5sp D/R. Sometime next week I'll post pics of what the Full time 4wd tranny looks like.

Posted Image



Can you point us to what was actually wrong among the components you have pictured?

#24 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 01:16 PM

Nothing wrong with it, it was a perfectly good transmission, other than the syncros were on their last legs... infact the fluid in it was probably reusable, I only had the thing for 6 or 9K since I put it in... IF that...

#25 Alexx

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Posted 25 April 2004 - 02:46 PM

Why did you end up opening it then? Was it just for us!




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