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Horsepower vs gearing vs Tires and lift


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48 replies to this topic

#1 PA Grown

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:28 PM

So I have a subaru over here in CO came with some wide 28 inch tires. It's got an 84 brat transmission and I absolutely roast my clutch trying to climb really steep trails like aspen mountain 4x4 trails. I only have a 4-hi transmission. Trying to climb from time to time my car will stall out because my engine just can't turn the gears with the 28s. I'm stumped. Accept my subaru sucks on trails. Smaller tires and lift it(wheel wells are chopped for the tires). Different gear box. More hp? I'm not keen on a regear as I'm broke and 18.

#2 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:36 PM

Find a good used dual range transmission and swap it in. These can be found cheap, especially if you are patient. All bolts right in. No difference between it and the single range.



#3 PA Grown

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:43 PM

I'd be switching from a 4spd brat to I'm assuming you mean a dual range gl transmission? It'll just bolt in?

#4 92_rugby_subie

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:48 PM

I believe there is a 4 speed dual range from the brats/hatches

 

A 5 speed dual range swap is possible but requires some additional parts and modifications



#5 disom93

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 11:32 PM

Can u do the swap if the starter is at top of the motor? I heard u couldnt??

#6 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:06 AM

Can u do the swap if the starter is at top of the motor? I heard u couldnt??

 

If the starter is on top, the motor isn't an 84 ;)

The last year for starter on top I believe was 81 or 82. After that all the EA71's were "fat case" and had the side/corner mounted starter.

I haven't ever seen a dual range top mount tranny myself, but they may exist.

 

Twitch



#7 PA Grown

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:11 AM

We'll I have an 84 brat tranny and it's definetily not the stock transmission. I believe the transfer case is innermarried to these older subaru transmissions. So I'd have to get a whole dual speed transmission. And this 4 SPD blows for my setup. I can't get my car going fast enough to use 4th. Granted I can do 70 in 3rd. I'm leaning towards a 5 SPD dual range. If I can find one!

#8 PA Grown

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:13 AM

What about just switching to a weber 32/36 carb? I heard it can boost hp from 70 to 100? Correct my numbers please. I have an old stock carb that's getting towards the end of its life.

#9 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:33 AM

What about just switching to a weber 32/36 carb? I heard it can boost hp from 70 to 100? Correct my numbers please. I have an old stock carb that's getting towards the end of its life.

 

Extra HP would be a short term solution for off roading. If you're hitting the clutch hard now, you'll only do more damage with more HP. A weber is a nice power upgrade but not a gearing solution turning 28s. That low gear will make all the difference for off road. If you get a 4 speed dual range from an EA81 car it will bolt right in - no modification necessary. Last tranny swap I did took maybe 6 hours total. They're a little heavy, but it's not a very difficult job, especially if you have a buddy to help.

 

A 5 speed dual range requires an EA82 drive shaft, and modified shift levers and a few options between redrilled flywheel, EA82 clutch/flywheel or some such thing. I forget the specifics. Not a terrible job, but more involved than just bolting up the 4 speed dual range. The last two transmissions I purchased for cars of this generation cost me $100. and $65.



#10 PA Grown

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:44 AM

Yah I dig the 4 SPD brat tranny I've got besides the transfer case. So it's any 4spd from an ea81 with 4 hi-lo I want?

#11 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 01:22 AM

Extra HP would be a short term solution for off roading. If you're hitting the clutch hard now, you'll only do more damage with more HP. A weber is a nice power upgrade but not a gearing solution turning 28s. That low gear will make all the difference for off road. If you get a 4 speed dual range from an EA81 car it will bolt right in - no modification necessary. Last tranny swap I did took maybe 6 hours total. They're a little heavy, but it's not a very difficult job, especially if you have a buddy to help.

 

A 5 speed dual range requires an EA82 drive shaft, and modified shift levers and a few options between redrilled flywheel, EA82 clutch/flywheel or some such thing. I forget the specifics. Not a terrible job, but more involved than just bolting up the 4 speed dual range. The last two transmissions I purchased for cars of this generation cost me $100. and $65.

 

No flywheel modification necessary for the 5sp aside from resurfacing it to the right clutch spec.

Modifying shift levers is minimal, the biggest issue is the crossmember, and that only requires downspacing, and if you want to retain a chrome shift lever or not.

Everything else is pretty straight forward for the swap.

Just talk to Jerry (Bratsrus1) and he can hook you up with one of his kits.

You just supply the transmission, clutch and the driveline (and the money to buy the kit of course :P )

 

 

Yah I dig the 4 SPD brat tranny I've got besides the transfer case. So it's any 4spd from an ea81 with 4 hi-lo I want?

 

You can go that route, look for a low mileage one. I have killed 2 of those transmissions myself, 1st gear in one and 3rd in another.

Find a low mileage one that has clean gear oil. That will be your clue to its life so far. Also, if you get the chance, check the magnetic drain plug.

Lots of metal shavings, bad juju. Very few metal shavings, good news. No metal shavings, somebody flushed and changed the fluid and cleaned the drain plug. Who knows...

 

Twitch



#12 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 01:35 AM

So I have a subaru over here in CO came with some wide 28 inch tires. It's got an 84 brat transmission and I absolutely roast my clutch trying to climb really steep trails like aspen mountain 4x4 trails. I only have a 4-hi transmission. Trying to climb from time to time my car will stall out because my engine just can't turn the gears with the 28s. I'm stumped. Accept my subaru sucks on trails. Smaller tires and lift it(wheel wells are chopped for the tires). Different gear box. More hp? I'm not keen on a regear as I'm broke and 18.

 

How often you use it for mountain Trials? ... If you Also use it as daily Driver?

 

In my Case, I chose 25" tires and 2" lift because my "Mixed" kind of Driving:

 

40% Offroading on Weekends + 60% of on road duty, 'cos is my Daily driver,

 

Also I Placed a Weber Carb ... I don't have Dual Range,

 

but my "BumbleBeast" goes Strong Everywhere with that Combo.

 

Kind Regards.



#13 disom93

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:02 AM

Not to hijack ur thread but can any of u tell me what i wpuld need to convert a 1980 brat top starter, 4speed single range to dual range? 4 or 5 speed it doesnt matter just need low

#14 rrgrr

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:57 AM

What about just switching to a weber 32/36 carb? I heard it can boost hp from 70 to 100? Correct my numbers please. I have an old stock carb that's getting towards the end of its life.

I am seriously doubtful that Any carb swap as a single upgrade can make 30 hp -unless you are seriously starving the motor currently. If there was that much lost power, I believe Subaru would have done something different in the interest of efficiency.



#15 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:36 AM

We'll I have an 84 brat tranny and it's definetily not the stock transmission. I believe the transfer case is innermarried to these older subaru transmissions. So I'd have to get a whole dual speed transmission. And this 4 SPD blows for my setup. I can't get my car going fast enough to use 4th. Granted I can do 70 in 3rd. I'm leaning towards a 5 SPD dual range. If I can find one!


While you're technically right about the transfer case being intermarried, there technically is no transfer case. Its just a gearset at the back of the transmission that locks the rear output shaft to the front. And the low range gearing actually engages before the power hits the rest of the transmission. That gearset is right up front in the transmission housing and its actually a totally different part from the 4 wheel drive.

Disom93, that will require an engine swap to make it work, as the 'fat case' and 'slim case' EA bellhousings are incompatible.

Twitch

#16 Uberoo

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:48 AM

so your starter is top mounted right?



#17 NorthWet

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:29 AM

If the starter is on top, the motor isn't an 84 ;)

The last year for starter on top I believe was 81 or 82. After that all the EA71's were "fat case" and had the side/corner mounted starter.

I haven't ever seen a dual range top mount tranny myself, but they may exist.

 

Twitch

Much confusion added at this point, since someone other than the OP asked about top mount starter.  So, to clear things up:

 

PA Grown, is your starter on the side like an 84 Brat should be, or on the very top-center like a much earlier Brat?



#18 ivans imports

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 11:01 AM

2.5 with 4.44 4eat all the power and gears you will ever need or 5 speed DR and 2.2 works well to



#19 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 11:38 AM

 I'm not keen on a regear as I'm broke and 18.

 

2.5 and a 4.44 would be a great setup, but probably not fitting for an 18 year old on a budget.

 

If you can post up a picture of where your starter is mounted, we can tell you concretely which transmissions to go for. Chances are that you have options for EA series transmissions. The quick and simple solution find a 4 speed dual range and swap it in - no modification necessary.

 

The other option, which will probably be a bit more expensive and a little more labor intensive project - swap a 5 speed dual range with the added parts/modification. The 5 speed has better gearing, the 5th gear for highway driving and is less prone to failure than the earlier 4 speed. The 4 speed isn't a bad trans, just not as bullet proof as the later 5.

 

PA Grown- what's your automotive experience so far? There are a lot of options available to your car, but if you're new to working on it/modifying it, best to start small and manageable. If we know what you're up for we can give better advice for your needs. Either way, go easy on that clutch until you've got something line up. Unless it's just a wheeler.

 

Twitch - Isn't there a re-drilling option for the flywheel to keep an EA81 clutch? Or some such thing? It's been a while since I researched the particulars of it. I have a low miles 5 speed for the Ski Team Wagon, but the project is on hold for now until I get the car out here.



#20 PA Grown

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 11:45 AM

I have an 87 2dr gl With a ea82 ohv engine in mine. My starters near the drivers side behind the engine.

#21 PA Grown

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 11:49 AM

My current experience is apprenticing at woody creek speedway near aspen CO. So lots of mixed things experience with cars vs racers vs desert trucks. I helped swap one transmission in my life. But I can get help from one of the guys up at the track no problem.

#22 Gloyale

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:01 PM

If your trans is single range, it's not from an 84 brat.

 

all manual trans second gen brats had 4spd dual range trans.

 

 

Weber carb will not yeild 30 hp increase.  I'm not convinced they add any power at all, just make it louder and "less cluttered" under the hood.

 

I personally preffer the Hitachi carbs, and a few air bleed hoses don't scare me.

 

Help us help you here and please tell us the year, model, and engine OF THE CAR!  not what year you think the trans is from....not very helpful information.


Edited by Gloyale, 22 September 2013 - 12:02 PM.


#23 PA Grown

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:05 PM

We'll the reason me and the guys at the track think it's an 84 brat is those are the only axle we can get to fit the front end. Of course all the splines for these old subarus seem to be the same so far. This cars a junkyard dog I'm finding out new things about its history every other repair I make.

#24 PA Grown

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:07 PM

So what do you guys think then!? Do I have a 84 brat transmission with just hi 4wd? What am I working with here?

#25 capn_r

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:55 PM


What Gloyale said, 

 

Help us help you here and please tell us the year, model, and engine OF THE CAR!  not what year you think the trans is from....not very helpful information.

 

You still didn't say the year of the car. Maybe look in the door jam for a date code if you don't know? 


Edited by capn_r, 22 September 2013 - 12:56 PM.





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