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Why do you guys love the EJ22? Confused...


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36 replies to this topic

#1 nobangmycar

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:20 AM

Can someone stateside please tell me why you guys always transplant EJ22's instead of using a DOHC EJ20 or 25?  Why not EJ20T? Everybody uses the SOHC EJ22 and I just don't get it.  Do you not have the other engines available over there?  Do most American market cars run the 22 factory?  Do you have some weird restriction on hp?  We have so many turbo and quad cam engines lying about here it makes no sense to me why anyone would use the 22.  Can someone enlighten me?



#2 grossgary

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:22 AM

EJ22 swaps are an easy and inexpensive repair for the common Phase I EJ25 headgasket issues.

 

Basically the answer to your question is the same reason you make the decisions you do - time and money.

EJ22 swap is ***zero*** work (other than a normal engine replacement).  Turbo swap is a ton of work. I have no interest in making a repair

EJ22's = $200, Turbo engines = $1,000+

 

If someone is paying a shop to repair blown EJ25 DOHC Phase I headgaskets:

$1,200 for new headgaskets on the EJ25...or....
$300 to install a used EJ22 ($250 for engine + $350 for install - $300 sell the old EJ25).

A more reliable repair for half the cost.

 

Do most NZ vehicles have the Phase I DOHC EJ25?

How many engine swaps have you done - non-turbo to turbo?

 

Turbo engines are far more expensive than non-turbo engines.



#3 heartless

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:45 AM

availability does have a lot to do with it. The US market got a LOT more of the NA EJ22s than any other EJ version thru the mid to late 90's.

 

Besides - the early NA EJ22, non-interference engine is nearly bulletproof - why NOT use it? Get the best of all worlds - reliability, durability, availability....not to mention ridiculously easy to work on. It is a proven platform that will last a very long time when taken care of.

 

EJ25 to EJ22 - again - Availability. With the prevalance of headgasket issues on the EJ25s most will shy away from using it and go for the availability & durability of the EJ22.

 

Aside from the difficiulties mentioned by grossgary of swapping in a turbo setup in a non-turbo car, most of the turbo units over here have been beat up pretty badly - they get used and abused by young punks that think they need to be red-lining all the time - who wants the kinds of issues on a used motor that kind of treatment brings? not me.



#4 987687

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:04 AM

The only 2.0 we got here was in the wrx. We never got a n/a 2.0. Also we don't have nearly as many turbo cars as you guys do down there.

The legacy SS and touring wagon were 90-94, then we had a n/a wasteland all the way till 02 when the wrx came out. Still didn't gen another turbo legacy till 05, and those have issues.

Whereas you had turbos in pretty much every single model of car, so there's gotta be a lot more turbo parts floating around.

 

2.2 and 2.5 are pretty much the only n/a engines offered here. There was a 1.8 in the mid 90's, but not a whole lot of them. They're getting kinda hard to find.



#5 MilesFox

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:42 AM

We have this thing called the USDM. we don't get all the fun stuff. We don't get all the diesel variants. We don't get utes, or v8 RWD cars. We sold holdens as pontiacs, just recently, and not any more

 

We only wished out ea82t came with 135 hp instead of 115.



#6 ivans imports

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:43 AM

Non interferance engine whats not to like no bendy valves and good hp reliably have seen stock 91 ej 2.2 with 550000kms on it never been apart



#7 Gloyale

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 12:40 PM

EJ22's = $200,

 

If someone is paying a shop to repair blown EJ25 DOHC Phase I headgaskets:

$1,200 for new headgaskets on the EJ25...or....
$300 to install a used EJ22 ($250 for engine + $350 for install - $300 sell the old EJ25).

A more reliable repair for half the cost.

 

Wow......Subaru engines are going up in price around here.

 

just paid $650 for a 96 EJ22

 

$1300 for a SOHC 2.5

 

Pick n' pull yards are a little bit cheaper.(still nowhere near the prices Gary quoted)......but when I'm billing customers I'd have to add that labor in too so I just have the yards pull them.  Don't have time to search around for cheap engines and then pull them myself.  Time is money.



#8 nobangmycar

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 12:59 PM

Thanks for the reply guys!  I understand now.  I didn't realise you didn't have all the engines available over there.  Personally I wouldn't do a turbo engine swap because I know it is a lot of work and I don't understand enough about them, but every the most common engine here is the 2.0 DOHC turbo and non-turbo.  We have access to so much over here and there are so many of them on the road, from EJ15, 16, and 18, thru to the dreaded EJ25 with the H/G issues and the EZ30 (great engine, but quite long!).  It has all become clear. The 2.2 is not very common at all here, but I might try track one down and learn a bit more.  Cheers guys!



#9 grossgary

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:17 PM

Wow......Subaru engines are going up in price around here.

 

just paid $650 for a 96 EJ22

 

there's a bunch for $250 - $350 here on car-parts.com. but that era is all rusty so the cars we're putting them in aren't worth nearly as much as out your way.  i'm too the point where i have zero interest in this era cars due to rust, just not on the radar screen, not worth my time. 

 

we need to trade EJ22's for rust free vehicles.


Edited by grossgary, 10 October 2013 - 03:25 PM.


#10 SubaruJawn

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:18 PM

I love the EJ22 becasue it has decent power and decent MPG.

 

thats just my personal opinion.

 

dont get me wrong i like the EJ25's power just not the MPG.


Edited by SubaruJawn, 10 October 2013 - 04:18 PM.


#11 wagonist

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:14 PM

NZ only gets all of those engines cos you have no restrictions on 2nd hand imports from Japan.

Japan has registration rules that mean engines over 2L are taxed more heavily. Subaru Japan never sold an EJ22 Legacy, so therefore NZ never got them either.

 

Aus never got a DOHC NA EJ20 until about 2005, and even then I'm not sure. So we mainly use the EJ22 & EJ25 also.

The DOHC 2L is way better than the SOHC EJ22, so if you've got access, then use it.

 

Although I still curious why Subaru America made the bastardised EJ22T for the first model Legacy. At least Subaru Aus left the DOHC EJ20T in our RS models.



#12 987687

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:28 PM

NZ only gets all of those engines cos you have no restrictions on 2nd hand imports from Japan.

Japan has registration rules that mean engines over 2L are taxed more heavily. Subaru Japan never sold an EJ22 Legacy, so therefore NZ never got them either.

 

Aus never got a DOHC NA EJ20 until about 2005, and even then I'm not sure. So we mainly use the EJ22 & EJ25 also.

The DOHC 2L is way better than the SOHC EJ22, so if you've got access, then use it.

 

Although I still curious why Subaru America made the bastardised EJ22T for the first model Legacy. At least Subaru Aus left the DOHC EJ20T in our RS models.

 

I have absolutely no idea why they put SOHC heads on the 2.2t. The turbo heads have smaller valves than the n/a heads!! But if you swap some 2.5 DOHC heads on there ... :D



#13 WoodsWagon

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:19 PM

There's also the compactness and ease of serviceability of the phase1 SOHC heads on the EJ22 and EJ18. Spark plugs are easy to get to, you can pull the head without touching the valvecover, and there's plenty of space between them and the frame rail even in an EA engine bay. The DOHC heads take up a lot more space and the timing belt is more vulnerable when offroad. Plus those stupid plastic cam pulleys like to break if you happen to whack them on something or get a good stick jammed up in the timing belt. Then you bend valves because the DOHC's are interference heads.

 

The EJ22 has good power, it's dirt cheap, and plentiful in good used condition in the USDM junkyards.

 

Anything EJ turbo is either rare, or too new to be cheap, or to beat to be usable. Any WRX in a junkyard has either been hit so hard in a wreck that the cam pulleys broke, or the motor has spun rod bearings. So you're still paying good money for an engine that needs an overhaul before you can use it.

 

The last EJ22 I bought to swap into a DOHC EJ25 car with blown headgaskets was $300 with a 30 day warranty pulled and on a pallet. They even loaded it into my truck for me. I picked up an EG33 and full wiring harness from a pick your own junkyard for $120. The older stuff was dead reliable and they sold tons of them so the junkyards are flooded with good engines. It will change though and the next common engine will be the 00-04 SOHC EJ25. A 10 year old Subaru is reaching the end of it's life around here due to the salt on the roads and how bad the body's rust, so they are the next crop in the junkyards. Unfortunately a lot of those engines are hurt by the headgaskets leaking and people running them low on coolant so they will be more of a gamble. Plus they're speed-density EFI which I don't particularly like. But they will be all that's available cheap so that's what we'll swap in.



#14 bratman2

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 07:34 PM

Would love to have an EJ22 SOHC in my Brat! Purchased a 93 Legacy FWD years ago for my middle daughter with 115,000 miles on it. Sold it years later with 192,000 miles after she smacked a bear and crinkled the body from driver's front fender all the way to the back door. Up to that point the only item I had to replace was a temperature sensor and I did one timing belt. It used virtually no oil and averaged 28-29 mpg when sold. Co-worker bought it just to commute to work. It died from overheating (thermostat stuck) blowing the head gaskets and cracking the intake manifold at 212,000 miles. Think she was hot!!!!! Stone reliable engine!!



#15 MilesFox

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:39 PM

So how much is a DOHC ej25 d worth? I have one with a blown HG, but runs. Then how much is it worth with a reseal":)

 

In all reality i would save the block, and of course, go with a pair of our beloved ej22e heads for more compression, and non-interference reliability.



#16 86BRATMAN

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 09:26 PM

So how much is a DOHC ej25 d worth? I have one with a blown HG, but runs. Then how much is it worth with a reseal":)

In all reality i would save the block, and of course, go with a pair of our beloved ej22e heads for more compression, and non-interference reliability.

You do realize that makes a piston to valve interference engine, if the belt slips or breaks, right?

Edited by 86BRATMAN, 11 October 2013 - 09:26 PM.


#17 987687

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:14 AM

Yea, the pistons in 97+ make everything piston/valve interferance.

 

I don't get the whole non-interferance obsession, to be honest. It's a damn good thing the ea82 is, becasue those stupid things blow belts off all the time. But an EJ will almost never ever break a belt witin its 105k interval. Changing the belt and componests is a walk in the park. If you're worried, spend some money and time, and don't worry anymore.



#18 MilesFox

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 08:08 AM

I think the whole non interference obsession is born from being brought up on ea82's



#19 ivans imports

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 10:27 AM

Interferance motors make me lots of money so I like them ! customers not so mutch or best of both worlds 2.5 with 2.2 heads



#20 Uberoo

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:25 PM

on the street an interference engine is fine if you change your timing belt and pulleys before they are worn out. Offroad its inevitable that a belt might come off or an idler might eat itself.I wouldn't want to replace an engine because because a $5 idle pulley  died.



#21 BoxerRebellion

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:57 PM

Subaru's EJ22 was the most bulletproof engine ever designed.



#22 Uberoo

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:06 AM

Subaru's EJ22 was the most bulletproof engine ever designed.

INCORRECT the EJ18 is more bulletproof, because with the smaller bores it is very damn hard to kill by overheating.


Edited by Uberoo, 13 October 2013 - 01:07 AM.


#23 987687

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:13 AM

INCORRECT the EJ18 is more bulletproof, because with the smaller bores it is very damn hard to kill by overheating.

 

If you wanna go down that road... ea81.

 

You guys can have fun with your non interference engines relying on a rubber belt to keep it working... I'll stick with my gear driven cam.


Edited by 987687, 13 October 2013 - 07:14 AM.


#24 Uberoo

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:19 AM

If you wanna go down that road... ea81.

 

You guys can have fun with your non interference engines relying on a rubber belt to keep it working... I'll stick with my gear driven cam.

But its ran by pushrods,long, slender, aluminum push rods.I managed to kill an EA81 by bending EVERY SINGLE PUSHROD.



#25 darsdoug

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:48 PM

You do realize that makes a piston to valve interference engine, if the belt slips or breaks, right?

So what are the years of EJ22 heads that you can bolt onto the EJ25D block and still produce a genuine non-interference engine as a result?






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