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Legacy Clutch differences?


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23 replies to this topic

#1 jonbfish

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 07:31 AM

The clutch is almost out of my 1998 Legacy L wagon. I replaced the clutch in my old 1991 Legacy a couple years ago and it was surprisingly easy. Are there any major differences between the two or any reason I should pay someone to do this other than the weather is starting to get cold? I was comparing the two books I have and looks pretty similar as they are both 2.2's. Also, what can you tell me about the special tool for tipping the engine?


Edited by jonbfish, 16 October 2013 - 09:08 AM.


#2 MilesFox

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 09:45 AM

Assuming the trans has a clutch cable, the operation will be identical to the 91 legacy.



#3 jonbfish

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:47 AM

Thanks, that is what I figured. Getting everything out of the way has been a chore since everything is a little more corroded than I expected. All the exhaust studs but one came out, that one the nut just came off. Should I try to get it out or just use the nut on the existing stud? I assume the others should all be replaced since the nut is stuck on.



#4 Gloyale

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:58 AM

98 should be a hydrualic clutch.  Just unbolt the slave and set it aside.

 

Everything else will be the same.



#5 jonbfish

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:07 PM

98 should be a hydrualic clutch.  Just unbolt the slave and set it aside.

 

Everything else will be the same.

 

No, it's the 2.2 so it's still a cable clutch. One reason I am attempting to change it.



#6 Fairtax4me

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:52 PM

The actuation method of the clutch makes no difference. The clutches work exactly the same (probably even the same part).

For tipping the engine, hook a ratchet strap from the pitch mount bolt on the firewall (remove the pitch mount, stick the bolt back in) to the alternator bracket. Just be careful not to damage the throttle position sensor.

#7 jonbfish

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:54 AM

Thanks F4M, that sounds like a good idea. Can you give me any advice for replacing the exhaust studs?



#8 Fairtax4me

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:31 AM

If the threads are clean where they came out of the head just re-use them. Those are about 50/50 whether the nut comes off or the stud comes out of the head.

#9 MilesFox

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:40 AM

My rule is if the stud comes out with the nut, replace it, or if it stays, best leave it be.

 

To install or remove a stud, double up 2 nuts and tighten themselves to eachother, and then nurn the nut closest to the base to remove, or the one closest to the end to install. use 2 wrenches to tighten or loosen the nuts to eachother.

 

from what i have seen with hydraulic vs cable clutch, the throwout bearing is different, and the PP is different. on a cable clutch the TB clups onto the fork. On a hydro clutch, the tb snaps into the PP

 

If it were a hydraulic clutch, you would remove a shaft from the side of the trans to disengage the throwout to separate the motor form the trans. My frame of rference comes from a first gen legacy turbo, which uses a hydro clutch


Edited by MilesFox, 20 October 2013 - 09:40 AM.


#10 Fairtax4me

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:14 AM

That's a "pull" style clutch. Only the turbos used that.
The N/A hydraulic clutches work just the same as the cable clutches. The release fork pushes the release bearing into the pressure plate. No difference in the release bearings.
There is a difference in the 2.2 and 2.5 pressure plate. 2.5 plate has a stronger spring which gives it more clamping force, but the two are interchangable.

#11 jonbfish

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:01 AM

For tipping the engine, hook a ratchet strap from the pitch mount bolt on the firewall (remove the pitch mount, stick the bolt back in) to the alternator bracket. Just be careful not to damage the throttle position sensor.

 

Is it ok to leave it tipped for an extended period of time, or should that only be done when installing and removing? I may have it out a couple of days.

 

My rule is if the stud comes out with the nut, replace it, or if it stays, best leave it be.

 

To install or remove a stud, double up 2 nuts and tighten themselves to eachother, and then nurn the nut closest to the base to remove, or the one closest to the end to install. use 2 wrenches to tighten or loosen the nuts to eachother.

 

That is what I was thinking so I ordered a new set. I might hit the one that stayed with some penetrant and give it a chance to come out easy, but not going to break it prying too hard. Do I thread the studs in all the way?



#12 Fairtax4me

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:23 AM

Is it ok to leave it tipped for an extended period of time, or should that only be done when installing and removing? I may have it out a couple of days.


I should have asked before, are you pulling the engine or the trans?

If you're pulling the engine it doesn't matter, just let the trans rest on the cross member. Put a floor jack under it to lift/lower it into position to line it up.

If you're pulling the trans, ratchet strap as described above. It should be good for as long as you need. You don't need to tip the engine much, its mostly to keep the engine from rocking forward too far and stressing the hoses.

#13 jonbfish

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 02:29 PM

I am dropping the transmission. I thought it might be to keep it from going back forward. I have everything apart but the transmission and engine are stuck together pretty good. I have been raising and lowering the jack on the tranny trying to work it loose, so far I can get about an 1/8th inch of separation at the top. Any tips for that?

 

Thanks a bunch guys, this board rocks!



#14 MilesFox

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 02:49 PM

Try placing a block of wood in front of the engine to hold itback. you may want to remove the radiator as to not damage it. I resorted to shoving a nintendo gameboy between the steering pump the last time i pulled a trans instead of the motor.

 

Or you could accomplish the same by placing a jack under the engine. put a board across the oil pan, or a vertical board under the crank pulley.


Edited by MilesFox, 20 October 2013 - 02:50 PM.


#15 Fairtax4me

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 04:04 PM

If you can get a gap between the engine and trans cram a prybar in there and work your way down each side a little at a time.
The alignment pins like to stick and can be a pain to get them separated. But work each side a little, one at a time, (pry one side a little, then the other side, repeat) and work down towards the center of the bellhousing on each side. The pins are at 3 and 9 o'clock.

#16 jonbfish

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 06:46 PM

Thanks all, finally got it all apart. The clutch release fork is bad, pushed through the pivot. I am going to replace the clutch while I have it apart, is there an easy way to get the pilot bearing out?

 

Also, anyone have any good or bad experiences with parts store clutches?


Edited by jonbfish, 28 October 2013 - 10:11 PM.


#17 Fairtax4me

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:06 PM

Easy way is to remove the flywheel, drive it out with a socket from the back side.
While the flywheel is off reseal the separator plate. (Replace it if its plastic)
And replace the $3 o ring for the wrist pin access cover (diamond shaped cover) opposite the separator plate.

Had to get an autozone clutch for mine a while back and the TOB went bad in 6 months. Took it back for warranty, new TOB made noise from the first day. Never did go away. Clutches seemed fine otherwise. Can't speak to longevity though since neither was in the car more than about 6-8 months.

If you have time, order an Exedy kit online.

Edited by Fairtax4me, 28 October 2013 - 11:12 PM.


#18 Gloyale

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 11:14 PM

Easy way is to remove the flywheel, drive it out with a socket from the back side.
While the flywheel is off reseal the separator plate. (Replace it if its plastic)
And replace the $3 o ring for the wrist pin access cover (diamond shaped cover) opposite the separator plate.

Had to get an autozone clutch for mine a while back and the TOB went bad in 6 months. Took it back for warranty, new TOB made noise from the first day. Never did go away. Clutches seemed fine otherwise. Can't speak to longevity though since neither was in the car more than about 6-8 months.

If you have time, order an Exedy kit online.

 

+1

 

Take care of both the covers. 

 

leave the main alone unless it seems to be gushing oil.  A bit of weep, leave it.....best not to replace those unless spliting case.



#19 rallynutdon

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:10 PM

leave the main alone unless it seems to be gushing oil.  A bit of weep, leave it.....best not to replace those unless spliting case.

 

Why is that?



#20 jonbfish

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:55 PM

I didn't realize I should do the covers too but I've seen that in a thread here and will do. Is the o ring a dealer part?

Also forgot to mention I didn't see a paint dot on the outside of the flywheel, but there is one towards the middle of it. Is that what I use to line up the clutch?

#21 jonbfish

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:47 PM

I got the flywheel off. Since both of you said it I should probably reseal the covers, but they look good. Is that something that needs to be done? I am a little concerned I may screw it up and they won't be sealed as good as they are now. Pretty sure the separator plate is metal.



#22 Fairtax4me

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:58 PM

If you don't reseal them they will start leaking not long down the road. Separator is easy, if its metal remove it, clean the old sealer off, and reseal with Ultra grey RTV.

O-ring is generally a dealer part, but you can probably match up the old one at a parts store. They usually dry up and split when you remove them.

#23 jonbfish

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:16 AM

Do I need to drain the oil to reseal the covers? Considering every thing I have removed has been a struggle to get apart I am leaning towards leaving it alone, although looking at pictures in some of the threads I may still have the plastic plate.

 

Also, any thoughts on the paint dot on the flywheel?



#24 Fairtax4me

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:26 AM

No need to drain the oil. Both are well above the oil level.

Clutch PP should only go on one way IIRC. Just line up the alignment pins. If the pins in the flywheel dont line with the pressure plate rotate to the next set of holes.

Flywheel to crank alignment doesn't matter. They're balanced independently of each other.

Edited by Fairtax4me, 30 October 2013 - 11:26 AM.





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