apintonut Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Less fuel use is great but what about more low range power? That's what we're after. It cause a fuller burn of the gasoline and adds torque Example in my festiva ide hafta down shift from 5 to 4 less than 1/2 way up hwy18 after installing i never had to down shift up 18 hill at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apintonut Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Less fuel use is great but what about more low range power? That's what we're after. It cause a fuller burn of the gasoline and adds torque Example in my festiva ide hafta down shift from 5 to 4 less than 1/2 way up hwy18 after installing i never had to down shift up 18 hill at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Less fuel use is great but what about more low range power? That's what we're after. more efficient combustion means more power with less fuel.I looked into it a while a go but I never got the chance to build one and try it out.Although through the magic of youtube I saw a 90's escort getting 60 mpg with a generator installed,I also saw a dodge hemi truck running and driving with a BIG tank and generator in the bed-even had a pressure gauge showing the pressure there system put out and while driving,the pressure would go down a bit on full throttle but other than that it seemed to run fine.However anything can happen off camera so I take it with a grain of salt until I can test a system for my self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuru Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I've messed around with HHO a bit, built built a nice multi chambered tank by using various diameter stainless pipe and platinum sheet, BUT It doesn't work all that well for offroading, too much jostling around of the tank and you end up ingesting some of the water because the rough roads will slosh it up onto the output tube and send it to your intake. not devastating, not not particularly useful. That and for cold climates, the water (or water blend) you use will freeze, rendering the entire thing one solid state brick and generating nothing. My best results were with my old (2000) Hyundai Elantra, Fuel Injected 2,0 DOHC 4 Cylinder and the 5 Speed Trans. average on a two hour drive on interstate at 65 was close to 50 mpg, but it was a fluke, everything was just right and it all just clicked. I could get 39 mpg out of the car in it's stock condition without adding hundreds of dollars in parts and countless hours of tinkering and adjusting and tuning and...the price of gasoline is cheap by comparison. I stripped everything off the car when I sold it. Never bothered to replicate it again. Not sure I am wanting to. todays cars get so much better efficiency. and like I will state below, I just do not drive far enough or often enough to justify the expense. (or the headache) I will say this, you CANNOT just hook up the 12 volt leads to your "Generator Tank" and expect to have enough free hydrogen to make things work. (If any at all) you MUST have a "Cracking Circuit" that modifies the electrical pulse to match the right frequency at the right voltage and amperage to effectively liberate the hydrogen and oxygen. If you are not into electronics, there are kits out there that have everything pre-built, but you are still going to have to tinker, and this stuff is unreasonably expensive. there is a whole lot of bad information out there. the proper way to do things is out there, but you have to dig for it. is it worth it... Maybe. for the amount of driving I do these days, I do not care about adding on stuff. maybe its the age settling in, but I just do not want to have to fiddle around with fussy bits anymore, I like to just twist the key and go on merrily down the road. the answer to "Does HHO Work?" is yes...but not as simply as you might think. If all one needs is a shot of power, try propane injection, oxygen injection, or good old fashioned nitrous oxide. Otherwise, for steady state constant gentle power, just build up your engine PROPERLY. remember that cooling is your friend, properly operating your engine and transmission lead to a long and happy life. (for the vehicle and occupants). sorry if i've burst any bubbles, but I know the headaches I went through trying to sort out HHO. for me, it simply wasn't worth it. your results may vary. But I had to say something just so half the board didn't go nuts over the idea of HHO. It, (like any obsessive hobby) can get expensive and waste large portions of your life. I'm not saying do not try it, just don't go into it with the pie in the sky idealism of how its going to be the end all of fuel deliverance. Like I said, it does work, but not under all conditions, and not as easily as (most of the sellers out there would have) you think . I think it would prove most useful on a stationary setup. Like a generator, log splitter, irrigation pump. throttling over rough terrain, or in the cold northern climes isn't its environment...not yet at least. Hope I've not killed any dreams out there, But one should go in armed with the facts before undertaking such a thing. having said all that... Go Forth and Tinker! Respectfully, Timothy (No, I will not field any questions pertaining to HHO, I've suffered enough) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I must say, thank you all for explaining the HHO. /hijack. Back on Topic: ...realistically his best option is a divorced transfer case so his ground speed can be the same or slower and his engine can be in a spot that makes power.Even idling along in 1st gear lo/lo his torque is doubled. Beside a Divorced Transfer Case, how about adapting a Torque Converter to a Manual Trans? You would need an oil pump to work the torque converter. A manual trans oiling system is based on splash lubrication so a torque would have to have an external oil pump... Also you would need a transmission cooler as torque convertor creates a lot of heat. In offroad racing the torque converter absorbs some of the driveline shock. In the Past, Chysrler offered this Clutch-to-fluid system: ~► http://www.allpar.com/mopar/fluidrive.html It has been discussed previously here, in USMB: ~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/142032-torque-converter-in-front-of-a-manual/ Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (like any obsessive hobby) can get expensive and waste large portions of your life. We offroad subarus, so TOO LATE! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apintonut Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) How about race fuel and a BIG coil and hot plugs (accel yellow coil 65$) i think he was just looking for more toque at idle or just above Sorry forgot he has 2.2 will need to get an ACCEL super coil for a ~98 dodge neon Some pics of stock coils side by side but you would want accel part # 140027 Edited January 26, 2014 by apintonut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 there is no such thing as an 82 dodge neon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apintonut Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Haha some one beat me to this mod i did all the leg work for not FML! http://www.sl-i.net/FORUM/viewtopic.php?t=5195 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Increase the length of the intake tube (between MAF and TB) Don't know why this helps.....but it does. Not really any MORE power, just makes it available at low RPMs smoothly without stalling. My intake boot on my wheeler is like 3" feet long, and the EJ18 it feeds makes good power and resist stalling out at low RPM's ~1200 or so for crawling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Increase the length of the intake tube (between MAF and TB) Don't know why this helps.....but it does. Not really any MORE power, just makes it available at low RPMs smoothly without stalling. My intake boot on my wheeler is like 3" feet long, and the EJ18 it feeds makes good power and resist stalling out at low RPM's ~1200 or so for crawling. That works because you inadvertently found a length of intake that resonates at low RPMs,it may not be perfect but its pretty close.A better solution would be to add a spacer between intake and throttle body, as well as head and intake.The factory intake setup is designed to make max torque around 4K rpm.Lengthing the intake via spacers could bring that down to about 3K rpm,so the engine would make more torque off idle and up to about 3k.Same with increasing the length of the exhaust header primaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apintonut Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 So scott going to try any of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apintonut Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 got my Wheeler going, its runnin a stock EJ22 stock everything, noticed then when wheelin most the slow going is like 100 rpms, is there anyway to get more power down in them low RPMs? maybe somethin with the electronics? I know I can install the Delta cams which ive done on past wheelers , if electrons make a difference would be cool to have a switch on the dash to make the change, any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuru Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 100RPM!?!? he wants to develop TORQUE WHERE!?! about the only way thats gonna happen (and I do not believe one can with gasoline) is with a radical cam (and cam timing), custom ignition and valve timing, standalone engine management, fuel injection (you are not going to get a steady state draw through a carb at 100 RPM) and sacrifice any higher rev performance. Unless the laws of physics have changed since my serious tinkering days. how about a 4 cylinder perkins diesel? those will chug away merrily at low RPM OR...heck...its a Subaru so they are light anyway...Find you a one lung Lister with a 30 pound flywheel...they are diesel and rock solid little engines. Did I misread that...100 RPM? (looking again...yup, the quote is "100 RPMS") holy cow...good luck with that not saying it cannot be done, but that is below the standard Idle speeds for most (gasoline) engines ever made.. Of course, if you do...we wanna know HOW. curiously, timothy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 maybe 1000 rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) 100RPM!?!? he wants to develop TORQUE WHERE!?! about the only way thats gonna happen (and I do not believe one can with gasoline) is with a radical cam (and cam timing), custom ignition and valve timing, standalone engine management, fuel injection (you are not going to get a steady state draw through a carb at 100 RPM) and sacrifice any higher rev performance. Unless the laws of physics have changed since my serious tinkering days. how about a 4 cylinder perkins diesel? those will chug away merrily at low RPM OR...heck...its a Subaru so they are light anyway...Find you a one lung Lister with a 30 pound flywheel...they are diesel and rock solid little engines. Did I misread that...100 RPM? (looking again...yup, the quote is "100 RPMS") holy cow...good luck with that not saying it cannot be done, but that is below the standard Idle speeds for most (gasoline) engines ever made.. Of course, if you do...we wanna know HOW. curiously, timothy The title says, and has said 1000 all along, pretty sure that was just a typo. Edited February 3, 2014 by bratman18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 NOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 That works because you inadvertently found a length of intake that resonates at low RPMs,it may not be perfect but its pretty close.A better solution would be to add a spacer between intake and throttle body, as well as head and intake.The factory intake setup is designed to make max torque around 4K rpm.Lengthing the intake via spacers could bring that down to about 3K rpm,so the engine would make more torque off idle and up to about 3k.Same with increasing the length of the exhaust header primaries. Installing 8mm spacers between head and intake today and will test those out at the upcoming run to see if they make a difference in the low end. If I have time between now and then I'll do a TB spacer too although I have my doubts on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 8mm might not be very noticeable.However, where did you find the spacer? IIRC EJ18s have a 2" spacer under the intake-their intake is different,but I think the bolt pattern is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 8mm might not be very noticeable.However, where did you find the spacer? IIRC EJ18s have a 2" spacer under the intake-their intake is different,but I think the bolt pattern is the same. http://www.ebay.com/itm/161206861420?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I run fenelic spacers on buggy made a big diff in intake temps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 would be interested in the results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuru Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 gotcha...1000RPM... I'm Still liking the 4 cylinder perkins idea... Power at 1000RPM... I think it would be better to just go with gearing at that stage, Gear low so the engine will perform within its (factory) powerband. Maintaining its efficiency and peak torque, but at a much lower road speed. I shall fall silent now... Respectfully, Timothy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthCoast Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Intake spacers gave a slight but noticeable bump. I found some 1/2" phenolic material in my shop so I am going to make another set and a TB spacer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Groovy.Was it a low end bump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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