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Engine Honing


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19 replies to this topic

#1 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 01:02 AM

Going to do a hone on my EA81 and was curious about any tips on proper honing technique.
Such as if the oil is a requirement and if it's recommended to do it in a certain temperature range.
Figured this would be good info for anyone doing bottom end engine work.
Thanks in advance guys.

Twitch

PS: This is the hone I'm planning on using: http://www.amazon.co...=A221LQEWFFVQAG

Edited by Twitch de la Brat, 06 November 2013 - 01:05 AM.


#2 NorthWet

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:46 AM

Are you putting in new rings?  If so, what is the facing material on the top ring?



#3 Gloyale

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:56 AM

That hone may not be large enough.  95mm.  I believe EJ22 bore is 96.9 mm

 

 

Edit*  Duh.....EA81...92mm bore.......Ooops


Edited by Gloyale, 06 November 2013 - 10:57 AM.


#4 ivans imports

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:09 AM

I use a ball hone on slow speed lubed with 10-30 oil is very important to go up and down consistantly and smoothly and try not to stay at top of cly to mutch as they wear tapered so more honing at bottom of cly than top. I also putt a old gasket on top of block to protect it from scraches



#5 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:12 AM

Are you putting in new rings? If so, what is the facing material on the top ring?


Yes, and until the pistons arrive, I won't know, They might be moly, but then agaon they may just be basic iron.
What kind of difference will it make?

Twitch

#6 ivans imports

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:13 AM

Should be crome molly



#7 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:14 AM


I use a ball hone on slow speed lubed with 10-30 oil is very important to go up and down consistantly and smoothly and try not to stay at top of cly to mutch as they wear tapered so more honing at bottom of cly than top. I also putt a old gasket on top of block to protect it from scraches

Thanks for the tip Ivan. I know about the taper, and shockingly this little EA81 has almost immeasurable taper on the cylinder :grin:
Even after 200k. But I will be focusing on the bottom of the bore more-so than the top.
Do you run the bore in spinning or slide it in and then start spinning it?

Twitch

PS: Part Number for the pistons is RY2666, an old Beck-Arnley number. Not sure who the pistons are officially made by yet.

Edited by Twitch de la Brat, 06 November 2013 - 11:19 AM.


#8 ivans imports

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:18 AM

Can go in stoped but must come out spinning or drag marks



#9 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:21 AM

Can go in stoped but must come out spinning or drag marks


Perfect, thank you. This is my first engine build and I really don't want to screw it up :P
Do you recommend a certain type of 10w-30? Synthetic vs Conventional?

Twitch

#10 ivans imports

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:24 AM

As long as its not dry also should be going up and down at a good rate do not go slow is important to get a good xrosshatch



#11 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:32 AM

Ok. I'll look up some videos on youtube before I start into it, just to see how long to run it and how fast to have the drill for proper honing technique.

Twitch

#12 NorthWet

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:39 AM

The rate of up and down is relative to the rotational rate... you are looking for a 45degree crosshatch, which means same speed up and down as the speed of the abrasive going around the cylinder.

 

If, at tear-down, you can still see hone marks top-to-bottom on the cylinders then their is little-to-no wear or taper.

 

The ring facing-type matters as to which hone grit you use.  A molybdenum facing requires only a mild hone, whereas a chromed facing requires a coarser hone in order to "wear in" the chrome facing.



#13 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:54 PM

Gotcha. I'll order my hone when I find out what rings I got with my pistons. Do you guys normally get chrome-moly rings with new pistons or are they typically basic cast iron-moly?

Twitch

#14 NorthWet

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 02:03 PM

I have no idea what a "chrome-moly" is in this context.  (I am a little out of date on these things, so it could just be me :)  )  In my view of the world, typically you will have ductile iron compression rings, with either a chrome-plated facing or a molybdenum filled groove on the facing.   It's been over 30 years since I have done a complete rebuild on an engine, so I may be way out of date.



#15 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 06:49 PM

"Chrome-moly" is an alloy featuring primarily chromium and molybdenum. The material tends to be extremely wear resistant as well as non-corrosive/corrosion resistant.
It is used heavily in high grade tools and long wear items (such as rings).
From my research, it appears to be the "premium" ring material. Your typical rings with be basic iron with maybe a moly face. The chrome face rings are probably chrome-moly.

Twitch

#16 NorthWet

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 07:27 PM

Well, after a quick peruse around the web, including Federal Mogul, it would appear that chrome-moly alloy steel rings do not exist, at least not for automotive purposes.  Iron is the rule, with some industrial applications specifying "steel" rings.

 

(BTW, I have known about CrMo steel for many decades, just not in the context of piston rings where its properties are mismatched for the application.  My fault for being vague on my previous post.  Cheers!)



#17 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:17 PM

Looks like I was looking at the wrong info, than you for the clarification. The pistons and rings I'm getting are ITM, so I'm not sure how they fall in the ranks of manufacturers. So far they seem to use the Beck Arnley part numbering system, and if their quality is similar, I should be good to go.

Twitch

#18 coxy

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 11:25 PM

This is one of the definite guides for Honing Cylinders, I always start out with a normal Sunnen type stone hone with three stones to make sure there are no hollows or high points, Flex Hones or ball Hones will follow the worn cylinder points so while it looks good it may not measure up so nice.

 

I do however use the Flex Hone for finishing as it gives you the ability to Plateau Hone for longer bore life, If you do not know what Plateau Honing is just look at this link for more detail on the whys and wherefores of Honing Engines correctly.

 

http://www.enginebui...rface-finishes/



#19 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:24 AM

I didn't end up honing the engine myself. It was worth the $100 to just let the machine shop do that.

No chance of screwing it up :P

 

Twitch



#20 clunkerbob

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 12:03 PM

A ball hone is the best for braking the glaze in a cylinder if you are reringing an engine .   A rigid hone is best for setting piston clearance after reboring a cylinder but will work if used sparingly .  DONT try to get out all the marks or scores in a used bore , its not neccesary and will create too much piston to wall clearance by the time you are done hacking away .  Remember , you are just breaking the glaze so the new rings will seat .  A nice even crosshatch is what you are looking for .  Subie cylinders are good material and rarely taper or wear very much .  

 

Another thing thats critical is to wash the honed bores out with hot soapy water  , NOT just solvent or brake clean .  Solvent takes out the oil but leaves the abrasive in the crosshatch to wear the new rings . You can use solvent first , but finish off with the soapy water .  Douche out the block completely with soapy water , rinse , and blow it out with compressed air and coat cylinders with oil so they dont flash rust and you are good to go .  Make sure the valve guides are tight and seals if used are new and you wont have any oil consumption problems .  

 

For break in I used to let the engine pull full throttle from about 15 -20 MPH up to speed in top gear back down again .  Do this maybe 10 times or so in a row and the new rings are seated .  

 

Bob






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