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A/T no D-light (and no delight)


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24 replies to this topic

#1 Luvn737s

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 07:40 PM

The Drive indicator does not light up and the tranny won't shift from 2nd to 3rd. Where should I start? 85 GL 1.8 Carb, A/T w/ AC.



#2 NorthWet

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 08:07 PM

In what way won't it shift?

 

Two possibilities come to mind:  One is that your shift linkage is misadjusted or jammed.  The other is that your Tranny's governor valve/driven gear has problems.

 

The "D" light may be not coming on because of the linkage, but more likely just burned out.



#3 Luvn737s

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 10:08 PM

It will not shift up from 2nd to 3rd, though it did shift up from 1st to second ok. The D light was working 2 days ago when I took it for a test drive and it shifted through all the gears OK. Does the tranny have a Vehicle Speed Sensor to sense a shift, or is it just a pressure thing? It will manually shift from second to first and back.

 

I'll try adding fluid and see if that helps. The only fluid loss was the transmission cooler in the radiator and the torque converter when I pulled the engine.


Edited by Luvn737s, 25 November 2013 - 10:10 PM.


#4 NorthWet

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:32 AM

The torque converter typically holds half of the ATF volume, so its "loss" could be significant.  Speed sensing in the 3AT (really an JATCO M41A) is hydromechanical via a rotating governor valve run off of the front differential..   The valve gums up, develops tight spots, both of which need to be dealt with by (easy) removal and rework.  The driven gear on the valve tends to wear abnormally ("Apple core", due to the wear pattern) requiring replacement of the gear.



#5 Luvn737s

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:44 AM

Delete- saw my answer in another thread.


Edited by Luvn737s, 26 November 2013 - 06:49 AM.


#6 Luvn737s

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:29 PM

Valve cleaned and replaced (gear looks very good) and no luck. Actually trans will not shift out of 1st automatically. 2nd can be manually selected. When moving if Drive selected ( manually out of 1st or 2nd) very little engagement occurs acts like it is slipping. No slipping at all in 1st or 2nd. Is there a chance there is a vacuum line that is incorrectly connected? What does the vacuum line do for the trans? Could a blocked filter cause this? How about a torque converter that is improperly seated?



#7 NorthWet

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:31 AM

How did you clean the valve?  Complete disassembly, deburring all edges and polishing all sliding surfaces, so that EVERYTHING slides "as smooth as butter"?

 

Could still possibly be ATF level, but proper shifting manually but improper shifting in "D" usually points back to the governor valve.  There is no filter (just a debris screen), and the vacuum hose goes to a vacuum modulator (auto parts computers use a different name) that provides "kick down" downshifts under heavy throttle; it should not have any effect on normal upshifting, but they do sometimes rupture their diaphragm and suck ATF into the intake manifold (producing white smoke out the tailpipe).  If the TC was not properly seated, there would be either mechanical noise from parts grinding themselves to destruction, or a broken input or oil-pump drive shaft (resulting in the tranny not functioning at all).

 

If the car manually shifts, the basic functioning of the tranny is good.  To me, the problems point to governor valve, or perhaps the AT's valve body valves that are controlled by the governor valve.


Edited by NorthWet, 27 November 2013 - 02:32 AM.


#8 Luvn737s

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 05:35 PM

I cleaned it with carb cleaner thinking I might find some goo in there, but it was clean and everything moved very easily. The cover for the governor only had a very small amount of fluid in it. I was expecting it to be full for some reason. 

 

What about band adjustment? I see very little about how or why it is done. 


Edited by Luvn737s, 27 November 2013 - 08:23 PM.


#9 silverhelme

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:42 AM

I would double check the governor as I have had clean and seemingly free ones the would not shift. As far as adjusting the band it is fairly simple and the procedure can be found in Haynes or Chiltons ( at least it is in mine ) or it can be found here http://jdmfsm.info/A...Subaru EA81.pdf in section 7 page 34 item 10.



#10 ivans imports

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:55 AM

Check governer for apple coring I did fix a governer gear other day I cut it down in 1/2 to get it riding on a new spot worked for a temp fix I think you can buy the gov gear by itself and is realy easy to change



#11 ivans imports

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 11:56 AM

I would not mess with band has lots of servo travel and to tight will tear the end off to loose should not matter



#12 Luvn737s

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:25 PM

She shifts! Now we're down to one shiftless thing around the house!

 

I fully disassembled the governor and polished the bores with XXX steel wool and cleaned it again and reassembled. Thanks to whomever posted the disassembled governor, that was really helpful. 

 

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. 



#13 NorthWet

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 12:41 PM

Enjoy!  Keep the ATF clean and not overheated and the tranny will stay happy.



#14 Luvn737s

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 09:43 PM

And you were right, the D light was a burnt out bulb. 



#15 Luvn737s

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 10:19 PM

Does anyone overhaul these governors? Has anyone bought one from the dealer NOS?

 

Edited to delete whining


Edited by Luvn737s, 01 December 2013 - 07:20 AM.


#16 Luvn737s

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 09:00 PM

How about honing the bore a little to make sure there are no burrs?



#17 NorthWet

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 12:05 AM

Did you follow the directions on deburring during the cleaning?  That procedure works pretty well.

 

The last couple that I have done, I did do a light "hone" on the bore.  I wrapped some crocus cloth around a drill bit in a cordless drill, lubed the bit with a bit of ATF, and used that to hone the bore.  

 

Regardless, if done well, you probably won't have to clean and debur it again for many years.


Edited by NorthWet, 02 December 2013 - 12:05 AM.


#18 silverhelme

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:12 AM

I would not mess with band has lots of servo travel and to tight will tear the end off to loose should not matter

It is fairly easy and is actually part of the regular 30k or 60k (I can't remember which) procedure to maintain the transmissions.



#19 Luvn737s

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:21 AM

I've had it apart and together a few times and each time it gets worse. I'm headed to the junkyards today. What year Subarus had the 3AT from which to try and get a replacement governor? Any other makes use this tranny (it is FWD only, not 4WD)?



#20 silverhelme

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:52 AM

Any year that uses the 3AT will interchange. If I remember '82-'93. 



#21 Luvn737s

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:58 PM

Welll, I rebuilt the governor for the fourth time and it could not possibly move any smoother, yet it won't auto upshift from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd, unless you tromp it and then at about 4500 RPM it will upshift for a moment and then back into 2nd. You can manually shift it from 1st to 2nd and it downshifts automatically from 2nd to 1st.

 

So, I am taking  a much needed break from this project to regroup and reassess. I found a 5 speed locally, but I would need a step-by-step guide to tackle something like that, AND it would have to make sure there was no need to eliminate the emissions controls since they have that money maker down here in Phoenix.

 

Orignally the problem was a broken timing belt, but I went the full monty on gaskets and oil/waterpump, etc in order to build my daughter her first car that could be as reliable as my previous Subarus have been.



#22 Luvn737s

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 10:06 PM

Would soaking the governor in something that would make it slick be worth it? I can't tell that there are any burrs by moving it, but the valve sure doesn't do it's job when called upon to get the tranny to shift from 2nd to 3rd.



#23 silverhelme

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:46 AM

Check or replace the vacuum modulator ( be careful of the little actuator rod ). It will affect where it shifts and how hard.



#24 Luvn737s

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 01:50 PM

That's next. Is that a "dealer's better" part, or is the Autozone variety OK?



#25 silverhelme

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 02:22 PM

I've used both with about equal success.






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