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TQ Came Off During Engine Removal - Need Help


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57 replies to this topic

#26 subaruUser

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:36 PM

I just got it seated down either to what is the second or could be third (fully seated), but again not sure. Again, if I measure from the trans bell housing mount (flush) to the outer lip of the TC (towards front of car) it's a 1/4". However the reason I wonder if its seated is because if I look through the starter hole, the bottom edge of that starter hole closest to the TC is almost touching and seems like it might not be able to come back anymore.

#27 subaruUser

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:50 PM

Searching Google I ran across a thread over on NASIOC. See post #2;

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1607928

According to the member it shows this picture as fully seated and this is how mine looks.

Could I be fully seated and turning for days for nothing?

#28 MilesFox

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:35 PM

The flex plate is reessed in the engine bellhousing. you will know it's seated when you mate the engine to the trans and the flexplate still has about 1/8 of room to align the TC bolts and draw it together after the engine is bolted on. 

 

The engine should draw to the trans fully before the flexplate touches the TC. If the TC is hitting it while the engine still  has another 1/4" to go, then it is not seated.



#29 MilesFox

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:37 PM

You can mock up the starter and the end of the bendix gear with no teeth would be in plane with the teeth on the TC



#30 johnceggleston

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:54 PM

ok, the nasioc thread reminded me.

the phase 2 set up is a little different.

the TC does not seat quite a ''flush'' as the phase 1 TC.

 

i have only worked with one phase 2 trans, and that was to deliver it to the shop to install it.

 

hth



#31 Pierobon

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:14 AM

Tiny little tip to avoid this shitty experience of separating and uniting engine and transmission:

 

https://www.icloud.c...09-D4F64C98A1A2

 

Remove them altogether!  :lol: Yay

That's me in the picture btw...



#32 subaruUser

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:47 PM

The flex plate is reessed in the engine bellhousing. you will know it's seated when you mate the engine to the trans and the flexplate still has about 1/8 of room to align the TC bolts and draw it together after the engine is bolted on. 
 
The engine should draw to the trans fully before the flexplate touches the TC. If the TC is hitting it while the engine still  has another 1/4" to go, then it is not seated.


Thanks I'm going to be trying to hopefully install this afternoon. Let's hope I'm good!

#33 subaruUser

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 02:48 PM

Tiny little tip to avoid this shitty experience of separating and uniting engine and transmission:
 
https://www.icloud.c...09-D4F64C98A1A2
 
Remove them altogether!  :lol: Yay
That's me in the picture btw...


That's another way to skin a cat I suppose :)

#34 CNY_Dave

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:48 AM

You could measure from the bellhousing seating face to the mounting face of the TC.

Then measure engine bellhousing seating face to the flex-plate mounting face.

 

Then make a small pic and figure if the TC is far enough back that it won't touch the flex-plate.

 

If the flex plate is recessed just place a flat board or such across the bellhousing and measure from that.



#35 subaruUser

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:55 PM

Dave thanks for the idea. Well yesterday my luck continues, trying to sleeve the crank and the sleeve wouldn't go on and got destroyed. I've never used one before but according to the directions and what others have said should have been easy. Nothing with job for me has been easy, go figure. Finding out if a local machinist can sleeve and just install the damn seal. Gaining a whole lot of experience on this one the hard way. Bet I never mess with a RMS on a Subaru again. 

 

Guess that will give me time to do the mock up you suggested above.



#36 presslab

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 05:49 PM

You should buy yourself a Christmas gift, for next time.
http://www.amazon.co.../dp/B000FPYW4K/

#37 subaruUser

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 07:01 PM

Yes a good tool indeed. I actually have that tool :) I was using it and the RMS was in so tight it actually straightened the tool :s

I ended up getting out the RMS with a couple of drywall screws which unfortunately is what marred the crank. It's been quite the learning experience.

#38 lmdew

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 07:34 PM

I helped a fellow get his reseated the other day.  The collar inside the TC was not centered so the TC was almost 3/8" out.  We used a extension and a wood block to lever it back to close to center and then it went in.  



#39 presslab

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 12:40 PM

Yes a good tool indeed. I actually have that tool :) I was using it and the RMS was in so tight it actually straightened the tool :s

I ended up getting out the RMS with a couple of drywall screws which unfortunately is what marred the crank. It's been quite the learning experience.

Wow, that is tight. Did you try tapping it in deeper? Kind of like tightening a bolt before loosening it, to break the bond. But man I love that tool, every time I use it it feels like cheating. I know people say to leave the RMS alone, but I always replace it and no problems so far after doing maybe 6 of them.

Those speedi sleeves should go on pretty easy, but I could see how a burr deep inside would be hard to file down.

My thoughts on replacing the converter seal... I recently rebuilt my 4EAT and I did that seal of course, but installing it with the stator shaft in the way will be tough. I'd say give it a good visual, and make sure the spring on the sealing lip is still in place. Also try to look inside at the bushing to make sure it's not gouged up.

I'd guess you didn't damage the pump. If the converter spins real smooth when seated it's probably okay.

Here's to wishing you better luck in the new year. :)

#40 subaruUser

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 01:11 PM

Wow, that is tight. Did you try tapping it in deeper? Kind of like tightening a bolt before loosening it, to break the bond. But man I love that tool, every time I use it it feels like cheating. I know people say to leave the RMS alone, but I always replace it and no problems so far after doing maybe 6 of them.

Those speedi sleeves should go on pretty easy, but I could see how a burr deep inside would be hard to file down.

My thoughts on replacing the converter seal... I recently rebuilt my 4EAT and I did that seal of course, but installing it with the stator shaft in the way will be tough. I'd say give it a good visual, and make sure the spring on the sealing lip is still in place. Also try to look inside at the bushing to make sure it's not gouged up.

I'd guess you didn't damage the pump. If the converter spins real smooth when seated it's probably okay.

Here's to wishing you better luck in the new year. :)

 

Good tip on the RMS and tapping further didn't think about that! Also promising to hear how many RMS you have done with good results. 

 

For the converter seal, I indeed looked at it and the spring was still intacted so based on my luck with the job I decided to leave it alone  :wacko: Where is the bushing located you mention to take a look at? I looked inside where the transmission input shaft sits in the trans and appeared fine. I also looked inside the TC and all teeth appeared normal.

 

I currently have it at the point of what I believe is seated so for now I don't plan on pulling it back off unless when I try to drop the motor back in there isn't the 1/8" gap between the flex plate and TC. TC currently takes a slight effort to spin (Car in neutral) but seems to rotate smoothly. I appreciate the wishes for a New Year, I need it, it's been a rough year for sure.

 

Still open to making a new friend if anyone local has done this and could lend a hand/insight. Did I mention I have a heated garage :) If you have a GF8 too I have a lovely JDM roof rack I would make a nice deal on for lending a hand, win-win.  :)



#41 subaruUser

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:58 PM

OK, so dropped the pan today to straighten it out based on other members mentioning it may cause my next problem. Wow, that red Three Bond is insane to break the seal. Finally got the darn thing off and banged out the bottom. Wish I hand't messed that pan up because that seal was real good, dang it!

 

Now that I am able to see up inside the transmission I may still have an issue. Looking inside the transmission, next to the valve body above the shift select lever there is a shaft that has a spot of shinny wear. I wonder if this is the input shaft? If so it may be out of place. Meaning, from the looks the shaft might have rode somewhere further back in the case giving it this smooth appearance. It appears to be a machine surface and seems odd to be in a location with no contact and to look like that. Not sure though as I know nothing about transmissions, so maybe this isn't even the input shaft and just another part of the transmission.

 

I'm trying to attach a picture here but having problems. Maybe I'm an idiot but can't seem to figure out how to upload pictures to this site or the member content area.

 

I just keep getting deeper and deeper. After all of this I would hate to get this car back together to only learn it may have been something I could have found/fixed during all of this but didn't and it causes further damage.

 

Did I mention at the start of this I only bought this car less than 3000 miles ago!


Edited by subaruUser, 30 December 2013 - 12:32 AM.


#42 presslab

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 07:26 AM

You are probably looking at the shaft for the pinion gear. The input (aka turbine) shaft is deep inside, no way to see it from there.

This site is very limited on photos, you'll need to link to an external site like picasa or photobucket.

#43 CNY_Dave

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:00 AM

That could just be the gear select rod, it is visible when you take off the pan and 'look up'.

 

It runs into the tailhousing to activate the parking brake.

 

It is narrower than any of the rotating shafts.



#44 CNY_Dave

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:12 AM

To clarify-

The select rod itself is small and low down and goes into the valve body, it has a linkage that goes to the park pawl rod, which is almost in the middle of the trans and is visible near the rear of the pan if you look up into the hole that also opens into the tailsection.



#45 subaruUser

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 01:24 PM

I don't believe this is the shift rod. Its actually directly above the shift rod i beleive but higher up in the case. The shaft I'm talking about runs front to back, shift rod runs side to side and valve body, correct?

It may be the shaft for the pinion gear as the other member above mentioned. Like i mentioned dont know anything really about transmissions but being cautious to avoid anymore mistkes.

I may just be paranoid because this project has became such a mess. I'm still waiting for the crank sleeve I ordered from MI to get the engine squared away.

Guess I'm probably safe to seal the tranny pan and move on for now. Going to use Permatex The Right Stuff gray. Since I don't have access to any of these ThreeBond products and The Right Stuff seems like it may be an step-up/improvement for Ultra Grey.

#46 subaruUser

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 01:48 PM

Oh, forgot one other item had a question about the pan magnet was covered in the ferrous type of oil like sludge, is this normal?

 

The fluid color was nice and red but I flushed it shortly after purchasing and also removed a Napa oil filter from the Trans and installed the correct Subaru specific ATF filter  ;)



#47 Gloyale

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 01:56 PM

It's a good idea to replace the o-ring on the end of the input shaft before seating TC.  This o-ring leaking is I believe the cause of the forward engagement delay problem in the Phase II trans.



#48 CNY_Dave

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 09:58 AM

Not the shift rod, but the rod for the parking pawl.



#49 subaruUser

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 01:41 PM

Not the shift rod, but the rod for the parking pawl.

Thanks for clarifying, got ya! Yeah it's entirely something else like you say as the input shaft appears higher and in mid-line of trans. As I mentioned just getting paranoid due to issues I've had!



#50 subaruUser

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 01:53 PM

It's a good idea to replace the o-ring on the end of the input shaft before seating TC. This o-ring leaking is I believe the cause of the forward engagement delay problem in the Phase II trans.


Thanks for the info and insight. Dang it, I looked at o-ring and thought about replacing but got side tracked and didn't. TC is back on already so now I need to decide if I want to go back down that road.

Oh, yeah wanted to ask again about the trans pan magnet. Is it normal for that thing to be covered in a greasy type sludge?

Edited by subaruUser, 01 January 2014 - 01:55 PM.





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