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Timing waaaaay off


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25 replies to this topic

#1 Luvn737s

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:06 PM

This has me baffled.

 

I changed the timing belts and the cam indicators were set correctly before and after installation (12'oclock on the valve cover seam, one rotation of the crank and then 12 o'clock on the other) with the center valve timing hash mark. I tried setting the ignition timing to 0 and #1 TDC and then installing the distributor with it pointing at the brake booster. No start. Set it at 8 deg, no start, The only way it will start is to set the timing on the flexplate attachment bolt  beyond the 20 degree mark. It starts and runs pretty well (especially once warmed up).

 

What gives??

 

1985 GL EA81 1.8 SOHC,Carb, Auto (for now) and AC.


Edited by Luvn737s, 03 December 2013 - 09:07 PM.


#2 ferox

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:35 PM

You've got me baffled as well.  How did you change timing belts on an ea81?  Did AZ ea81s come with timing belts?  Pictures please.  Sounds more like you've got an ea82.



#3 Luvn737s

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:58 PM

Yeah EA 82 and fat fingers!



#4 tundrabrat

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:04 PM

Sounds like you have an EA82... I haven't rebuilt one of those but I'd put money on a simple thing you missed.  Do you have a manual you're working from?  If not I would recommend picking one up they're cheap and the and the answers are in there.



#5 scoobiedubie

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 12:17 AM

You set the rpm at about 800 rpm and disconnect the vacuum line to the distributor.



#6 Luvn737s

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 06:23 AM

I've followed all the instructions in the How to Keep Your Subaru Alive and the Haynes manual and the Miles Fox videos, and a number of years of previous Subaru experience,  but if I time it per the instructions it won't begin to fire off. Time it beyond the marks and it runs very well and had lots of power and re-starts well. Cold starting is troublesome but I think that is a choke related issue. Every critical pulley has a pin or key to ensure it can only go one way, so I don't see how I could have gotten them out of time, and I never removed the cams from their carriers, so I don't think I got left and right cams mixed up. 



#7 john in KY

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 07:12 AM

Sounds like you have the distributor installed one gear tooth off. 



#8 Luvn737s

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 07:23 AM

I've tried installing it at the proper position and moving it 1 tooth ahead (advanced) but the ignition is still too retarded there. I am setting it about 30 degrees ahead in  order for it to start and run smoothly. I thought the plug wires were all off by 1 position, but that's not the case either. 



#9 MilesFox

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 05:46 PM

try to feel for an 'in-between' gear on the dist. Mind you that the rotor will rotate some as the gear engages the crank



#10 Sonicfrog

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 06:01 PM

Post Revival!....  I'm having the exact same problem.

I pulled the engine in Murphy, the 87 Turbo Wagon, to change the clutch. While I was at it, I installed new timing belts. I put everything together, placed the flywheel so the housing timing pointer is on the three lines, lined up the cam shaftdots with the valve cover / cam tower seam (I'm t-belt coverless) at 0 and 180 degrees, and when I put everything together and started the car.... It ran great.  Only when I decided to fine tune the timing did I run into problems. When I first checked the timing with the light, I couldn't even find the timing marks. Once i found them, and timed the thing to 20 BTDC.... It ran like crap!

I set the timing back to about where it was before, at what would be the 28 BTDC if the marks don't go out that far, and now once again it's running fine.

Note: I also installed a new rear main seal, so I did pull the fly wheel off. But since the flywheel bolt pattern only allows the thing to go on in one specific direction... Well... Improper flywheel position couldn't be the problem.

Just to be sure, I have checked the timing marks once again.

Note. I've had several EA82, and done my fair share of t-belt replacements. I've put the disty in 180 degrees off before, and probably some other silly thing I can't remember at the moment, but this is a first.



#11 Gloyale

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:38 AM

You can verify the Flywheel position is correct by comparing the Keyway on the crank to the hashmarks.

 

Keyway straight down = Flywheel on the 3 hash marks

 

I can't imagine getting a flywheel on wrong...but just to verify.



#12 Sonicfrog

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:03 PM

I'll do that when i get a chance. Right now, I'm putting together a road bike to be used in the 60 mile bike ride event this Saturday.



#13 Sonicfrog

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 06:37 PM

UPDATE. 

I just went through the entire timing procedure again..... Same thing. This is really weird. I was wondering if maybe my timing light is malfunctioning. But I'm not sure how it could, considering it's just a standard basic induction style light. Generally, either they work... Or they don't.


Edited by Sonicfrog, 01 June 2014 - 07:12 PM.


#14 lvsarge

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:19 PM

My ea71 was doing the same thing. Ran like crap anywhere close to close to normal timing. I played with the carb until it started idling close to normal, but i was backfiring constantly. Since then i've ripped the motor out and found oil leaks on one head. Fixed all of that. Haven't got the motor back in yet to test. Hope your fix is less labor intensive than mine :)



#15 jono

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 05:04 PM

leads out by 90 degrees on the cap ?



#16 19804wdPOS

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:35 PM

So I'm not the only one with this problem

#17 Sonicfrog

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:15 PM

I'm still wondering if maybe my timing light is somehow malfunctioning. I'm going to borrow one this weekend and check that reading against mine.



#18 Sonicfrog

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:38 AM

Well... I've kind of given up for now. It's running fine, even though the timing is somewhere around 30 BTDC, the same as the OP.

But I will come back to it in due time, cause I can't let something weird like this go unexplained.


Edited by Sonicfrog, 14 July 2014 - 12:39 AM.


#19 naru

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:09 AM

Well... I've kind of given up for now. It's running fine, even though the timing is somewhere around 30 BTDC, the same as the OP.

But I will come back to it in due time, cause I can't let something weird like this go unexplained.

 

Sounds like your idle switch is not closed or the test mode connectors are not connected.



#20 MilesFox

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:21 AM

Just a speculation, but if you have an ea82 engine in an ea81 car or against a 4spd 4wd and using a modified ea81 flywheel, the timing marks are some 30 degrees different. Good luck.



#21 Gloyale

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 11:07 AM

leads out by 90 degrees on the cap ?

 

This



#22 naru

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 11:33 AM

This

 

Nah, The timing light does not care where #1 is positioned on the cap.



#23 Gloyale

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:42 AM

Nah, The timing light does not care where #1 is positioned on the cap.

 

It does if the Disty is installed for #1 towards the brake booster, ........and your using #1 towards the starter.

 

So basically you'd be seeing the #3 or #4 timing rather than the #1........

 

I see what you are saying though if you put the light lead on #1 it will tell you where #1 is sparking......I guess I think maybe he's using the wrong lead?

 

 

Also Have seen a few boogered Disty drive gears cause weird timing problems on both EA81 and EA82.......perhaps inspect the timing gear on the cam???



#24 Crazyeights

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 02:31 PM

I have another one. I just rebuilt an 1988 DL EA82 last summer (original engine) and same deal here. No power until the timing is off the end of the scale or about 28 - 30 degrees, it runs really well at that setting.  It's  my car so I just shrugged it off. Perhaps aftermarket timing belts are slightly different, would that do it?


Edited by Crazyeights, 15 July 2014 - 02:33 PM.


#25 BirdMobile

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:57 PM

My guess...
You've either got the timing light on the wrong plug wire, or your timing light has a "offset" adjustment dial knob that is set to something other than "0". Might be a faulty light too.




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