nowincolor Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Hey guys, first time poster long time reader. Title says it. Was cursing along and poof there goes the timing belt, heard squealing and immediately dropped the clutch to the floor, belt snapped and engine stopped silently and I glided to the shoulder. I've done a lot of reading and understand I have an interference engine and the chances of damaged valves are very high.. I have been doing a lot of thinking and have found a few options so I am seeking some advice. My options are: A) Replace timing belt and hope for the best B ) Assume damaged valves, remove heads and order new valves, gaskets, etc.. C) Assume damaged valves and replace heads with two used ones I sourced locally ($125 each + machining + gaskets) D) I also sourced an EJ22 locally for $600, it has considerably less km (116,000km) than mine (273,000km) but I would need a shop to do labour (cost??). E) Scrap it, buy a Yaris and cry myself to sleep I bought the car for $2000 from someone with no mechanical knowledge, I did a lot of work, wheel bearing, brakes, exhaust, etc.. and drove it clean across the continental US from British Columbia, down to Cali across to NY and back up to Nova Scotia. It worked like a dream! It's rust free and I'd like to see it on the road again! Needless to say id like to do this as cheaply as possible. I have never done anything this complex but I have the mechanical confidence to dive in. Any info or experiences will help. THANKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Yes most likely the valves are bent, but you might have gotten lucky. It does not cost much to put a belt on and see what extend the damage is. Turn it over by hand first and then see how it runs. A good used motor is a good option and not very hard to install. About $400 in parts to repair the old one, valves, HG, TBelt seals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 what Imdew said... pulling / swapping a motor in a Subaru is actually pretty easy if you are mechanically inclined - as long as the main wiring harness connectors match up it would be a pretty simple job to do yourself in a day. With the help of a couple of friends (Miles Fox & TheLoyale), we pulled the motor out of my 90 Legacy, did a reseal (was leaking oil from the separator plate & oil pan pretty badly) and a timing job, and had the motor back in the car and test fired in about 4, maybe 5, hours from start to test fire. Another hour, hour & a half for coolant refill, reinstalling fans, accessory belts, little finish stuff & multiple short breaks and it was complete and ready for the road again. Total time spent: 6-7 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Forget option E. I like option D and E. And yeah, I wouldn't worry about swapping a Subaru engine yourself. There are plenty of resources here to guide you through the process. A straight swap will take 3-4 hours. Maybe a little more on your first one. But they are super simple. If you've got an automatic, look up how to seat the torque converter before the swap. if a manual, now is a great time to put a new clutch in there while you're at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowincolor Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Bit of an update; decided to go with the swap, ordered the engine today should arrive on Monday. Car is at a shop right now, it was towed there for free, my boss is good friends with the owner. he had a look at it today and there is valve damage, failed compression test i guess.. I'm wondering now if i should get him to do the labor or should i do it myself.. only downside is the shop is 100km from where i live, so a tow would be expensive.. and I'd have to get creative to lift the engine.. how many hours "should" a shop charge for something like this? his rate is $70\hr.. thanks for the input guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Make SURE you get a brand new timing belt installed with the replacement engine. Right the mileage down on your odometer, and use that as a guide to change it in 60k (miles) and no longer to avoid this happening again. Was the block or pistons damaged? If not, just drop the heads and replace. Don't see why you'd replace the entire engine as I believe these are only "valve to valve" interference engines and not "valve to piston" interference which are worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec03 Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 In answer to your question, it should take about 12 hr to replace the head gasket and all timing belt components, and install the motor.. This is based the charges to me for a HG and timing belt replacement on a 2.5 SOHC. This assumes that no other problems develop such as the exhaust falling apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 In answer to your question, it should take about 12 hr to replace the head gasket and all timing belt components, and install the motor.. This is based the charges to me for a HG and timing belt replacement on a 2.5 SOHC. This assumes that no other problems develop such as the exhaust falling apart. 12 Hours?? seriously?? I hate to say it but I think you were seriously overcharged! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowincolor Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 Make SURE you get a brand new timing belt installed with the replacement engine. Right the mileage down on your odometer, and use that as a guide to change it in 60k (miles) and no longer to avoid this happening again. Was the block or pistons damaged? If not, just drop the heads and replace. Don't see why you'd replace the entire engine as I believe these are only "valve to valve" interference engines and not "valve to piston" interference which are worse. I thought it was valve to piston.. oh well.. would have cost about the same to replace the heads with machining, gasket kit, and you have to pretty much pull the engine anyway to get them off.. and after all that I would still have 270,000km on it. I already ordered a timing belt too, not going to make that mistake again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luko Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 12 Hours?? seriously?? I hate to say it but I think you were seriously overcharged! Yeah seriously... I pulled the engine in my 01' legacy, put a clutch kit in, and full timing belt kit and put the motor back in and was driving her in 6.5 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowincolor Posted December 10, 2013 Author Share Posted December 10, 2013 New (used) engine arrived yesterday and it looks pretty good, came with intake manifold too, so hopefully that will save some time on the swap. Fingers are crossed its not a dud! Should be rolling out of the shop by the end of the week.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 timing belt kits are available on rockauto and amazon for $120-130 - all new pulleys, tensioner, and timing belt. install those to prevent what you just had happen. http://www.amazon.com/Gates-TCK304-Timing-Belt-Component/dp/B002R8HMAY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386686180&sr=8-1&keywords=EJ+timing+belt+kit engine swaps are annoying and can take many hours. granted things can go smooth and everything comes off without a hitch...but rusted bolts, balancing engine, stripped holes, separating engine...can easily add gobs of time without prior experience or tools/equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luko Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Make sure you get the timing belt kit with all of the idler pulleys, tensioner, belt, and waterpump. Since you have it apart I would do the crank and cam shaft seals, along with a new thermostat since you'll have the water pump out, it's much easier, I always get the gates timing belt kit and the stant X-stat thermostat....oh yeah and don't forget to pull the oil pump off and tighten down the backing screws and use red locktite on them, and obviously get a complete oil pump gasket set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okamikai Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Pulling the engine out is not a difficult task as long as you have the right equipment. I just bought an engine hoist for $150 at Pep Boys with 1 Ton capacity, way more lifting power than what is needed for the job and for a very good price. Detailing the engine and doing repairs has never been easier. You should get one if you plan on doing this sort of jobs yourself and save some serious dollars on labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 we have a foldable one similar to this: legs fold up for storage - takes up a lot less space when not in use - under $200 at Harbor Freight. Again - way more capacity than is required for pulling a Subaru engine - makes the job a piece of cake. Completely agree on the full timing service, including seals, water pump, all idler pulleys, tensioner, and so on - do it right while the engine is out and easily accessable - and dont forget to reseal the rear separator plate while you have the access! Also a good time to replace hoses & vacuum lines as well. Do the job right before putting the motor in and you wont have to worry about it for another 75-100,000 miles (however long the timing service interval is for your yr/model). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Takes me 22 minutes to pull ej motor 90 % chance bent valves I would at least put belt on time it and then comp test to confirm any bent valves while its in car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowincolor Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 Well, just under two weeks after her near demise she's back on the road and better than ever. Had the swap done at a local shop for a very reasonable price. $600 in labour.. I was expecting worse. Although I feel confident I could have tackled this on my own I dont have the resources at the moment. No garage where I live and my parents are in the middle of selling their house so they didn't want a gutted Subaru in their's, haha. Drove it home (65km), and everything was fine, quiet, lots of power, and seemed to be better on fuel than the old engine.. I did however notice some steam coming from the front passenger side of the engine, maybe from a coolant hose? It wasn't much and only visible with hood popped. It's also very cold -18*C tonight, not sure if that has anything to do with it. Temp gauge is stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 only coolant related stuff on that side would be the upper radiator hose, and the radiator bleeder...make sure the hose clamps are good and snug. extreme cold can, and does cause minor leaks as things cool and contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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