Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

RPMs Go Up, Temperature Goes... Down?

Temperature Cold RPM Gauge Down

  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#26 lneulicht

lneulicht

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 41 posts
  • Charlotte, NC

Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:19 AM

And no need to do the boot until the axle goes bad, unless you object to the grease that might get slung around the torn boot. We've driven with torn boots for 20,000 before the axle itself went bad.


Edited by lneulicht, 11 December 2013 - 11:19 AM.


#27 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,622 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:35 AM

If you can do it yourself its cheaper to re-boot it, but shops don't like doing that. They would rather put a whole new axle on because its faster.

Did they say what was wrong with the steering rack? Or just said you need a new on?
The racks tend to leak a bit from the o-rings on the fluid lines, and o-rings are cheap and easy to replace.

#28 Marmaduke

Marmaduke

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Ellensburg, Wa

Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:34 PM

I'm not one hundred percent sure what is wrong with it. I'm picking up the car around 1400 PST today, and he said he'd go over everything with me. I'll get all the details on everything. I've also got it set up to take into another mechanic next week for a second opinion. I'll probably get new tires put on tomorrow along with getting the alignment done.

 

When I bought the car, I was able to get him down in price a bit as  one of the tires doesn't match the other three. So I'll be getting a new set on it. Don't want to jack up the AWD system with different tires, not to mention breaking/steering potentially being an issue.

 

It just sucks as three of the tires were at 70% tread with the mismatched one being at 40%.


Edited by Marmaduke, 11 December 2013 - 12:34 PM.


#29 rallynutdon

rallynutdon

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 137 posts
  • Reading PA

Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:54 PM

That's a big difference in tires. Hope it wasn't driven too long with difference or it will ruin the center diff. Axles can be had new from Rock Auto for ~$60. We've used 2 with no problems. As was said, do the thermostat and hose first. The other stuff can wait.



#30 AdventureSubaru

AdventureSubaru

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 820 posts
  • Scotts Valley, CA

Posted 11 December 2013 - 01:19 PM

I'm not one hundred percent sure what is wrong with it. I'm picking up the car around 1400 PST today, and he said he'd go over everything with me. I'll get all the details on everything. I've also got it set up to take into another mechanic next week for a second opinion. I'll probably get new tires put on tomorrow along with getting the alignment done.

 

When I bought the car, I was able to get him down in price a bit as  one of the tires doesn't match the other three. So I'll be getting a new set on it. Don't want to jack up the AWD system with different tires, not to mention breaking/steering potentially being an issue.

 

It just sucks as three of the tires were at 70% tread with the mismatched one being at 40%.

 

If the tires were the same size (matching numbers) you're okay. a little tread difference wont do anything to the trans.

 

If they are different size tires or if you can take a tape measure to it and find a different diameter then it's time to get them matched up.

 

The AWD system is not as sensitive as some think. If it were, we'd all destroy the drive train every time a tire gets low on air or we get a flat.



#31 Marmaduke

Marmaduke

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Ellensburg, Wa

Posted 11 December 2013 - 01:29 PM

If the tires were the same size (matching numbers) you're okay. a little tread difference wont do anything to the trans.

 

If they are different size tires or if you can take a tape measure to it and find a different diameter then it's time to get them matched up.

 

The AWD system is not as sensitive as some think. If it were, we'd all destroy the drive train every time a tire gets low on air or we get a flat.

 

 

I believe they are the same size/diameter. I'm still getting a new set put on. I will be driving this car over chains required mountain passes multiple times in the upcoming months and would feel better with everything matching.



#32 AdventureSubaru

AdventureSubaru

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 820 posts
  • Scotts Valley, CA

Posted 11 December 2013 - 02:02 PM

Nothing wrong with that. Save your old tires and sell them on craigslist or something to get some of the $$$ back. Lots of market for good used tires - especially in this economy.



#33 Marmaduke

Marmaduke

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Ellensburg, Wa

Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:56 PM

Got the car back from the mechanic. Total bill was $307.31 after tax for the thermostat, radiator hose, coolant, labor, and an oil change. He said he test drove it and the problem was fixed, so I'm feeling okay with what I paid.
 
As far as the other issues go, I was told the following:
 
-Timing Belt: Looks like it was done around 100,000 mile mark. Will need a new one soon though (currently at 170,000). He said the cams are leaking. Total quote for all of that looks to be roughly $1,000.
 
-Right front Half Shaft (CV Boot) plus labor would be about $300 after tax.
 
- Steering rack with labor and alignment would be another $800 after labor and tax.
 
----------------------
 
What I'm for the car so far:
 
$3,400 + $300 taxes. Registration good for another two months.
 
$300 for oil change, thermostat, and radiator hose.
 
So that's $4,000 total. I'm going to try and make it to Costco tonight for tires. I was quoted $411 installed for the cheapest set, but will probably go up a notch for my piece of mind. That'll be another $500, bringing me up to $4,500 total.
 
It also needs new wiper blades, reverse lights, fog lights, and brights. So That'll be another $100.00.
 
I'll eventually get her completely put back together. Looking to commission in the Navy soon. So I'll drive this into the ground and then hopefully be able to finance something decent. (WRX).


#34 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,622 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:18 PM

$1000 is insanely expensive for a timing belt job on this car, So is $300 for a thermostat and an oil change to be honest. I think we need to find you a better mechanic.

#35 lneulicht

lneulicht

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 41 posts
  • Charlotte, NC

Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:33 PM

Flat rate book I'm looking at lists .6 hours for thermostat  and .2  for an oil change. Parts should cost $40 or so ?

 

Flat rate for the timing belt is 2.6 hours


Edited by lneulicht, 11 December 2013 - 08:36 PM.


#36 Rooster2

Rooster2

    Subaru Master

  • Members
  • 3,581 posts
  • Indianapolis

Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:46 PM

$1000 is insanely expensive for a timing belt job on this car, So is $300 for a thermostat and an oil change to be honest. I think we need to find you a better mechanic.

+1 on way too expensive. Time to shop around for a much lower price to have the work done.



#37 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,270 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:15 PM

Mechanic said it would be cheaper/easier to do whole axle than just boot.
true, but is it better?


#38 Marmaduke

Marmaduke

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Ellensburg, Wa

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:54 AM

true, but is it better?

I dunno... Is it?

 

And I am definitely shopping around.


Edited by Marmaduke, 12 December 2013 - 01:54 AM.


#39 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,270 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:55 PM

there is nothing better than a true subaru new or re-man axle.

except possibly one from MWE or wht ever it's called now.

 

look for shawnW on this site, or retroroo.com, he sells them.

 

next best, is new boots on your old subaru axles.

even if it cost more than a cheap new or re-man axle from a parts store,

it will out last longer.

 

send him a message and ask.

 

http://www.ultimates...roo-ebay-store/


Edited by johnceggleston, 12 December 2013 - 03:02 PM.


#40 Marmaduke

Marmaduke

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Ellensburg, Wa

Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:36 PM

Okay... I see what you're saying. Thank you for the advise!



#41 Rooster2

Rooster2

    Subaru Master

  • Members
  • 3,581 posts
  • Indianapolis

Posted 13 December 2013 - 08:24 AM

Someone gutted the thermostat or removed it entirely, probably trying to cure an overheating issue, which on that 2.5 means head gaskets. While the engine is warm and running look for bubbles coming up in the overflow reservoir. Bubbles are a sure sign.

Get a Subaru thermostat or a Stant Exactstat. The cheapies you will have problems with. Pop it in and see how it does.
Read up on how to properly fill and bleed the cooling system, air pockets are guaranteed with these engines and need to be properly worked out or you will overheat.

Someone on Craig's list in Indy is selling a 97 OBW with known bad head gaskets. In the ad write-up, seller says he removed the thermostat, so he could continue driving with the bad HGs. I guess this is the red neck approach to HG repairs. Learn something new every day.



#42 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 8,622 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:34 PM

Someone on Craig's list in Indy is selling a 97 OBW with known bad head gaskets. In the ad write-up, seller says he removed the thermostat, so he could continue driving with the bad HGs. I guess this is the red neck approach to HG repairs. Learn something new every day.


At least he/she is honest!
I would only consider it as a temporary solution if I needed to drive the car to get home, but some people drive for months with no thermostat. Sometimes people just don't have the money to fix it right away and have only the one car to get around.

#43 Rooster2

Rooster2

    Subaru Master

  • Members
  • 3,581 posts
  • Indianapolis

Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:33 PM

At least he/she is honest!
I would only consider it as a temporary solution if I needed to drive the car to get home, but some people drive for months with no thermostat. Sometimes people just don't have the money to fix it right away and have only the one car to get around.

Yea, Subies get driven in spite of needing all kinds of repairs, because owners just don't have the money to get things fixed. I have read that repeatedly, as posted by many others on this fourm. Used Subie owners are often people just financially barely scraping along in life. That applies to me as well.



#44 Bushwick

Bushwick

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 315 posts
  • Ohio Akronish

Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:20 PM

I've owned a multitude of different cars over the years (usually end up getting unique cars with some HP) and have been working on my own rides since 15 (35 now). I paid $850 for my Legacy Wagon with 177k miles. Interior was in REALLY good shape, body fair, it needed a rear cross member ($18 at Pull-A-Part), rear brake line ($10 + brake fluid), obligatory timing belt as age of previous was unknown (think I paid $18 for the belt, repacked the pulleys), had a bad valve stem so all 4 were replaced at $10 each ($40), driver side CV boot lost the metal clamp, so a new one from Auto Zone was put on ($3), upgraded replacement alternator (130 amp; cost $25 +shipping/core charge), oil and trans fluid change ($30 for synthetic and filter, trans fluid around $15), air and fuel filter (around $15 for both) new plugs and wires (around $25). Not only are these cars REALLY cheap to work on or replace parts, they are also VERY easy to work on. Those quotes you are getting are super ridiculous. You can do most of the repairs with very basic hand tools. Even if you don't have many, you can drop $100 on a ratchet, some sockets, a good breaker bar (for the suspension parts) and maybe a $25 floor jack and a cheap set of jack stands for good measure and you just saved a couple grand to put towards that WRX you eventually want to buy ;)



#45 amhawks

amhawks

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • UT

Posted 15 December 2013 - 09:28 PM

Head gaskets typically do cause overheating. What people do to alleviate the problem is often to drill holes in the thermostat, which can cause the behavior described by the OP, since the thermostat is no longer able to close and keep coolant temp up where its supposed to be.

I understand this…..

 

What I don't understand is why does a higher RPM not cause temperature to increase?  I understand that a higher RPM turns the water pump faster, thus moving more coolant to cool the car.  However, doesn't a higher RPM also equal more combustion gases being added to the coolant (and combustion gases is why a car can heat up with a head gasket problem)?  It seems like it should either increase the coolant temperature, not lower it.  

 

Any thoughts for this greenhorn?  Thanks.  



#46 Rooster2

Rooster2

    Subaru Master

  • Members
  • 3,581 posts
  • Indianapolis

Posted 15 December 2013 - 10:20 PM

I understand this…..

 

What I don't understand is why does a higher RPM not cause temperature to increase?  I understand that a higher RPM turns the water pump faster, thus moving more coolant to cool the car.  However, doesn't a higher RPM also equal more combustion gases being added to the coolant (and combustion gases is why a car can heat up with a head gasket problem)?  It seems like it should either increase the coolant temperature, not lower it.  

 

Any thoughts for this greenhorn?  Thanks.  

The concept that is missing here, is that engine load is not being considered. A Subie with bad HGs will idle in Park gear all day without over heating, or casually driven at low speed with no over heating. However, take the car out on the interstate, and climb some hills, and watch the temp spike to hot. The work load on the engine increases to climb a long, or steep hill forces, when the driver to gives the car more fuel to keep the speed up. Engine RPM doesn't go up, but the engine is stressed more, so creates more heat, and then "wham" the HGs start failing big time, by allowing that extra hot engine heat from the exhaust to get pushed right into the engine cooling system. The cooling system of water pump, fans, and radiator can't compete with all that hot exhaust gas entering the cooling system. Game over, the engine over heats suddenly. This is how all Subies with bad HGs behave.



#47 amhawks

amhawks

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • UT

Posted 15 December 2013 - 10:34 PM

The concept that is missing here, is that engine load is not being considered. A Subie with bad HGs will idle in Park gear all day without over heating, or casually driven at low speed with no over heating. However, take the car out on the interstate, and climb some hills, and watch the temp spike to hot. The work load on the engine increases to climb a long, or steep hill forces, when the driver to gives the car more fuel to keep the speed up. Engine RPM doesn't go up, but the engine is stressed more, so creates more heat, and then "wham" the HGs start failing big time, by allowing that extra hot engine heat from the exhaust to get pushed right into the engine cooling system. The cooling system of water pump, fans, and radiator can't compete with all that hot exhaust gas entering the cooling system. Game over, the engine over heats suddenly. This is how all Subies with bad HGs behave.

Ahh, that makes sense (and makes me feel potentially better about my situation).  I thought/think I am in the HG nightmare right now, but I ran mine up a pretty good pass (over the Blue Mountains on I-84 out of Pendleton, Oregon) and it ran just fine on the temps.  It heats up just a bit (to 105 deg C) when I am on the flat terrain.  I just started a new thread regarding this issue.  



#48 Marmaduke

Marmaduke

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Ellensburg, Wa

Posted 16 December 2013 - 01:20 AM

Just as a heads up to everyone, the radiator hose and new thermostat seems to have fixed the issue. Here she is after her first trek off pavement with me. Just headed into the hills to do a little shooting.

 

1509062_10202924342049075_823466689_n.jp



#49 Rooster2

Rooster2

    Subaru Master

  • Members
  • 3,581 posts
  • Indianapolis

Posted 16 December 2013 - 09:39 AM

Just as a heads up to everyone, the radiator hose and new thermostat seems to have fixed the issue. Here she is after her first trek off pavement with me. Just headed into the hills to do a little shooting.

 

1509062_10202924342049075_823466689_n.jp

Nice looking Subie. Looks like you and your car are parked on an alien planet. Looks like shot gun shells on the alien terrain.



#50 Bushwick

Bushwick

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 315 posts
  • Ohio Akronish

Posted 16 December 2013 - 10:57 AM

Nice looking Subie. Looks like you and your car are parked on an alien planet. Looks like shot gun shells on the alien terrain.

 

^Good eye!

 

 

Nice looking sedan btw.







0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users