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EJ22 Timing Malfunction

EJ22 Timing Belt Cam Gear

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13 replies to this topic

#1 Arcady

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 04:54 PM

Greetings,

 

I'm obviously new to the board here, so I would like to say hello to everyone.

 

I've ran into a problem installing the timing belt on my Impreza, and I was wondering if there was anyone here that could assist me. I know there is a great deal of information reguarding timiing belt replacement and I've been reading/watching a lot of it for the last 4 or 5 days. Unfortunatey, I have not yet been able to find an answer to this question. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it was already covered somewhere, but I may not know enough about my problem to formulate a proper search for it.

 

Now, I have to say, I'm not a mechanic. I've done plenty of simple jobs (brakes, startes, alternators) and I even replaced the rear stuts on an earlier Impreza some years ago. I went into this job with as much information as I could find and it didn't really seem all that complicated, tedious yes, but not overly complicated. I still don't really think it's complicated, but I do have a problem,

 

My situation right now is that I acquired the new timing belt and was working on installing it. Before I removed the old belt, I rotated the harmonic balancer to line up all of the timing marks. As far as I can tell, I have aligned them all properly. I could post the plethora of articles I've been reading (and still have open) if there are any questions about that. I had used some small C-clamps lightly tightened on both cam shaft gears to keep the marks on the belt lined up with those on the gear. When I was trying to put the rest of the belt into the ears/pulleys, something happened. There was a noise and the right side (driver side) cam gear rotated ~45 degrees. Now it dioesn't seem to want to move or line up again. I don't know what the noise was and it may just have been the C-clamp striking something as it rotated, though I don't think so.

 

The big question is, how much trouble am I in? The other querstion is what can I do to get the right side gear to line back up again? There's lots of information about how they do become 'stuck' due to the sprnig pressure of the valves, but anything that I've read indicates that the crank shaft gear should be aligned and then I can align the cam shaft gear. The problem is that the crank shaft hear is aligned now, has been, and never moved. I just want to avoid moving things that shouldn't be and making guesses that could cause further damage.

 

Any insight into this would be appreciated.


Edited by Arcady, 18 December 2013 - 05:15 PM.


#2 MilesFox

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:35 PM

SOHC or DOHC?

 

The cam on the right side will be sprung under valve spring tension. It can snap one way or the other. No damage can be done as long as the crank hasn't been moved. 

 

If you are doing a SOHC belt, this vid may help you. the instructions assume the belt covers removed or the engine out of the car. The video demonstrates the cam moving one way or the other

 



#3 Arcady

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:54 PM

SOHC, same as in the video there.

 

I think it does help a lot as it does cover the sequence to put the belt on better than I've seen elsewhere along with the issue that I'm having. So it looks like that may be completely normal operation. The only question I have no is how much force I should have to use to rotate it. It does seem to me that mine requires much more force to move than he was applying. It's too dark to go outside and mess with it, but I'll see if I can get it to 'balance' as this guy suggests.

 

Thanks for the video and the reply.



#4 johnceggleston

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:48 PM

> TIMING BELT ARTICLES <____________________________  > Timing Belt Pictures <

 

 

how much trouble may depend on what year you are working on?

 

what year?



#5 Fairtax4me

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:58 PM

Put a wrench on the bolt and turn it. The valve springs put a fair amount of pressure on the cam and it can be very difficult to turn by hand.

#6 MilesFox

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:17 AM

The video demonstrates going coverless where you can grab the whole pulley by hand. I run open belts for ease of service, as it saves you several steps if you service the water pump or cam seals later. Non-interference FTW (90-96 ej22e)

 

The keyway on the crank snout at 6 o'clock position represents all 4 pistons in the center of their stroke. Make sure to get that crank pulley bolt good and tight, as much as you can



#7 lmdew

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:18 AM

Yes, no problems, just rotate the cam back where it needs to be and install the belt.



#8 Arcady

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 11:35 AM

how much trouble may depend on what year you are working on?

 

what year?

 

It's a '97

 

Non-interference FTW (90-96 ej22e)

 

I've been reading that they used a non-interference design until ~'97. A large part of my concern initially was that mine is a '97 and that it may be an interference design. How can I know for sure?

 

I'm getting ready to go out and start my timiing belt, and I think (hope?) everything should go just fine. I was worried when that gear moved on me and didn't want to move back. That stemmed from reading about bending valaves and interference / non-interference engines used by Subaru. Assuming it's true that the crank position indicates that the psitons are in the center, I feel a lot better about it. I'll let you guys know how it goes, but I will be taking my time with it.

 

Thanks guys.



#9 upnorthguy

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:26 PM

Like Miles Fox said, he was able to get a good grip on that cam because his rear timing cover is not in place (and because the engine it out of the car).  If yours is still in the car, as I suspect it is, it is harder to get a good grip on that cam gear.  My right hand recently took some abuse when I was trying to line up that cam and it snapped over a couple of times as I tried to get it to balance with the timing dot up top.  That inner timing cover has a nice corner on it that kept gouging my hand.  I finally got pissed smart and put a leather glove on while I wrestled it into place.



#10 Gloyale

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:36 PM

  My right hand recently took some abuse when I was trying to line up that cam and it snapped over a couple of times as I tried to get it to balance with the timing dot up top.  That inner timing cover has a nice corner on it that kept gouging my hand.  I finally got pissed smart and put a leather glove on while I wrestled it into place.

 

Use a Box end 17mm wrench on the cam bolt.

 

Using your hand is a good way to get sliced by the edges of the pulley.



#11 MilesFox

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:49 PM

use a clothes pin or a clamp to clip the belt to the pulley until you can get the tensioner in there. I had to make several attempts in the video to get it right, but of course, edited that part out for demonstration.

 

another trick is to route the belt and install the toothed pulley last, then pull the pin to the tensioner.



#12 johnceggleston

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:01 PM

A large part of my concern initially was that mine is a '97 and that it may be an interference design. How can I know for sure?

 

ej22s 90 - 96 are non-interference.

ej22s 97 - 00 are interference.

 

so you need to assume yours is interference.

i do not recommend testing for that by setting the valves open and turning the crank over with the starter.

 

make sure you know the right timing marks to use.



#13 Arcady

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 04:59 PM

Well, I got the timing belt installed with everything lined up as best as I could. I released the tensioner and give it a little while to give me some tension. I rotated the crankshaft several times and rechecked the marks with everything still aligning as well as I could manage. I went ahead and started it up and it runs.

 

Now, what do I do about all of the metal pieces blowing out of the exhaust pipe? Can I just glue those back in place?

 

I'm just kidding... But it does run a little rougher than I had expected it to. I came into this because of what appeared to be coolant leaking from the water pump. So the water pump has been changed along with the timing belt. I didn't run it long enough to see if I still had a coolant leak, but I'm 99% sure it was either a bad water pump or failed gasket.

 

Is there anything I hould be aware of maybe that could cause it to run rough aside from the timing being off? If it is slightly off as I describe, is that potential for engine damage? Is there a telltale sign of bent valves? I'm going to be researching this stuff here in a minute and I may find the answer, but I figured I would at least give an update.

 

Also, I just wanted to say thanks for the positive feedback that I've been recieving from all of you guys. I waited a long time to post anything about it as I had expected negative reactions for asking questions that had probably been asked a zillion times. That wasn't the case at all. So thanks for helping me through my problem and getting me the information I needed to do it at least partially successfully.

 

I still need to attach the harmonic balancer and install the belts and colling fans. I probably need to try and reset the timing again I expect.


Edited by Arcady, 19 December 2013 - 04:59 PM.


#14 avk

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 07:25 PM

Teeth. Did you count the teeth?






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