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EA82 tries, but wont start. ( new weber/heads )

EA82 weber carb problems wont start cylinder heads TDC

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15 replies to this topic

#1 wagondragon

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:33 AM

So, ive spent the last 2 weeks either waiting for parts or having to return parts because my local auto parts store always orders the wrong thing. Only to run into problems with the finished project...

 

Here is the run down. Its an EA82 1985 subaru gl station wagon. Recent headgasket failure ( cracked heads ) non existent choke, and possibly a bad starter, and bad breaks. So i recently bought re manufactured heads, and a weber carb, and some shiny new brakes. My subi will be perfect after this! IF i can get it running. 

 

Here is what I'm 99% sure of. The cams are timed, the distributor is timed, ( enough to start ) and in correct rotation for TDC ( I have rotated it 180 degrees as i made that mistake and troubleshooted that issue. ) I have gas ( 2.5 psi worth from the fuel line ) I'm 90% sure i have no vacuum leak from the intake. as there is good vacuum there. I have excellent compression on all my heads. ( 120-140 )

 

So i think i have narrowed it down to spark. Which i have, on all wires but... The only thing i have to suspect is my ignition coil reads a little under spec, and my ignition control module reads as having interference. ( which it shouldn't ) But as i have spark im not sure if that matters. The other fishy thing is that my carb seems to spray alittle gas up through the choke butterfly as it turns over. It is so close to starting its not funny. But it just wont get there. Its just not catching/starting.

 

Please help! I'm at wits end and i need this thing running before the end of the week.



#2 djanikowski

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:50 AM

I am not completely sure, as I have an SPFI EA82, but I believe the Weber carb needs more fuel pressure than that. I recall reading 7 psi at one point. Hopefully someone with a carb can give you a better answer.



#3 wagondragon

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:05 AM

The paper they give you say to not exceed 3.5 psi im pretty sure. 



#4 El Presidente

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:14 AM

Webers are fine on as little as 1.5psi, offroad guys run them that low to prevent flooding out when off-camber. At 7psi, it will just blast past the needle and pour gas all over the motor.

 

As far as the fuel coming out of the carb, I'd check the cam timing again. When it comes to ignition timing, you might want to check that as well and make sure the vacuum advance is going to ported vacuum on the carb and not a intake port. When you get it running, it going to want a lot more timing than stock and it can take it. I think I had mine at 14 advanced and it wanted more, but I didn't want it to ping when lugging it(wheeler).

 

If you have your old heads, you can keep them as back ups. Probably 90% of ea82 heads on the road are cracked and they only become a problem when they leak(not very often). HG failures are a design problem between the heads being a little flimsy and the HG's themselves, so you probably could have used your old heads if you got them milled.

 

It sounds like your close! When you pull a spark plug and turn it over does it spark? If you do I'd suspect the cam timing or the ignition timing, in that order..

 

Josh



#5 wagondragon

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:06 AM

Yeah, i have my vacuum advance hooked to the carb. I'm like 100% sure the cam timing is correct. I even checked by taking the spark plugs out and sticking my finger in the hole to fell the compression as the piston came to TDC. ( meaning that all my ports where closed and timed correctly to the TDC marks on the flywheel) And yes, i have spark. All plugs. 

 

Honestly, its really frustrating because ive checked everything. Ive been bouncing ideas off every mechanic i know to try to diagnose this thing. Ive even got my mechanical wizard of an uncle to help me. We have double checked everything.


Edited by wagondragon, 03 January 2014 - 03:10 AM.


#6 djellum

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 05:04 AM

if it sprays out the carb is very likely that its timing related.  id redo the belts and dist timing.  did you rotate the motor between installing the first and second timing belt?

 

have you double checked your firing order?



#7 mr sarcastic

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:34 AM

Maybe check your plug wires on the dizzy? Are they in the right order/rotation?

#8 Gloyale

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 12:44 PM

Did you use the Zero TDC mark or the 3 hash marks to set the timing?  You need to use the hashmarks.  If you used the TDC you will be off.

 

And are the dots on the Cams 180 from each other?....they need to be.

 

 

If you have it correct, the cam dots will be at 10:30 and 4:30 when the TDC mark is at 12:00 on #1 compression stroke.

 

Firing order is 1324

 

Engine cyl layout looking from front.

3----4

1----2


Edited by Gloyale, 03 January 2014 - 12:45 PM.


#9 wagondragon

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:24 PM

So the manual is wrong about TDC? because it says to put it to 0... if this is my problem im gonna flip... haha. My firing order is correct, but i didn't time it to the 3 marks... I'll try that. update when its done.



#10 Gloyale

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 01:27 PM

So the manual is wrong about TDC? because it says to put it to 0... if this is my problem im gonna flip... haha. My firing order is correct, but i didn't time it to the 3 marks... I'll try that. update when its done.

 

That's the problem.  You need to time the cams using the center of the 3 Hash marks, not TDC. 

 

Set to ZERO TDC after belts are done for distributor alignment.  Eng @ 0 TDC, line up disty gear dot with mark on disty shaft then drop it in.

 

The 3 marks are 90degrees BEFORE the TDC scale.

 

Haynes/Chiltons manuals are full of incorrect infomation for these cars.


Edited by Gloyale, 03 January 2014 - 01:29 PM.


#11 jono

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:28 PM

Gees, can be confusing to use the word timing (alone) when involving the three lll marks on the flywheel. I reckon the  word timing should be used together with ignition timing, for use with a timing light - and the three marks lll on flywheel in conjunction with timing belt install in order to get correct valve timing.

And the frustraing thing at this stage is if you can't get it started, a timing light is useless. Was in this space last week with a forklift, and luckily it had points ignition, so used old school method of set crank to timing mark not TDC but may have been 8* BTDC, loosened off dizzy lock bolt and turned it to just as cam lobe on dizzy shaft started to open points, locked dizzy - laughed at the owner for trying subie firing order on a mitsubishi :) , bit of fuel splashed down throat and she started and roared like not seen before for this owner :)

 

Has anyone ever done a compression test when valve timing has been wrongly set, either with the ignition timing mark or not roatating crank once between timing belt install ?

 

Has anyone done compression test on this problem car ?

 

I thought the lll marks were about 90 degrees after the TDC and ignition timing marks ! :) when turning crank clockwise, and when turning crank clockwise, think the dizzy rotor button goes anti clockwise - have you got the leads on cap in correct places and rotation ?


Edited by jono, 03 January 2014 - 03:33 PM.


#12 silverback

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:28 PM

Miles Fox has a video on U tube about EA82 timing belt installation. The 'dot' position on the cam sprockets relative to the 'three hash marks' will be understood. 



#13 ford'ssubaru's

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 08:01 PM

Props to miles fox his video is the shiznit!  Use the 3 timing marks or your screwed.  The only sure way to check valve timing is remove the valve cover and watch the exhaust valve close and the piston at tdc.  I would recheck the whole belt timing and such.  I know it is frustrating but I have walked down your frustration.....I know how you feel.



#14 ford'ssubaru's

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 08:03 PM

Gees, can be confusing to use the word timing (alone) when involving the three lll marks on the flywheel. I reckon the  word timing should be used together with ignition timing, for use with a timing light - and the three marks lll on flywheel in conjunction with timing belt install in order to get correct valve timing.

And the frustraing thing at this stage is if you can't get it started, a timing light is useless. Was in this space last week with a forklift, and luckily it had points ignition, so used old school method of set crank to timing mark not TDC but may have been 8* BTDC, loosened off dizzy lock bolt and turned it to just as cam lobe on dizzy shaft started to open points, locked dizzy - laughed at the owner for trying subie firing order on a mitsubishi :) , bit of fuel splashed down throat and she started and roared like not seen before for this owner :)

 

Has anyone ever done a compression test when valve timing has been wrongly set, either with the ignition timing mark or not roatating crank once between timing belt install ?

 

Has anyone done compression test on this problem car ?

 

I thought the lll marks were about 90 degrees after the TDC and ignition timing marks ! :) when turning crank clockwise, and when turning crank clockwise, think the dizzy rotor button goes anti clockwise - have you got the leads on cap in correct places and rotation ?

Refer to the above...........  Your hair won't turn grey...LOL.



#15 wagondragon

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 12:39 AM

Many thanks to you all for the info... I feel very foolish for completely overlooking the 3 timing marks for the cams... It's even in the book! After some issues with my brakes i finally got my subi on the road! She is running great! After i replace my tires and get them aligned everything will be perfect! 



#16 ford'ssubaru's

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 07:39 PM

Many thanks to you all for the info... I feel very foolish for completely overlooking the 3 timing marks for the cams... It's even in the book! After some issues with my brakes i finally got my subi on the road! She is running great! After i replace my tires and get them aligned everything will be perfect! 

Most of us admittadly have walked down the same path.........The other are lying...LOL.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: EA82, weber, carb, problems, wont start, cylinder heads, TDC

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