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Lift block height


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41 replies to this topic

#26 Uberoo

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 10:26 PM

So today I cut out the passenger side rust hole and welded a patch panel in its place.I have some pics but my camera wont sync up with the ancient computer I am using(pentium 4 with 2 gb ram running xp...) so I can't upload pics so be patient with me I'll figure something out.

 

I also got started on the driver side strut tower drop.Inside the strut tower was a clear and defined area where a second layer of sheetmetal was spot welded to the main layer of sheetmetal that makes up the strut tower.So I thought that was as good a mark as any so I took my dremel with a cut off wheel, and cut through the 16 gauge steel at various points along the seam between the two pieces of steel.After that I followed those cut marks with a sharpie from inside the engine bay and drew a line on the strut tower.Then I measured 7" down from that line to make the second cut line.After that I used my torch and cut out the section of the strut tower that I was removing-keeping  either above or below the line so I could grind it smooth to make it 7".I did the same with the strut mounting plate for the strut tower and ground it flush with the second layer of steel.Then I set the front end of the car at ride height with stock tires and 7" of lift and bolted the driver side suspension on to mock up where to put the strut mounting plate.

 

Then I remembered that the strut is compressed a little bit at ride height.So to compress the strut I am going to remove the spring and duct tape the strut shaft at that compressed length and weld up the strut tower...Now I need to go visit someone I know with a stock brat and ask to measure the compressed length of his struts,that wont happen until monday due to working on another friend's car saturday and sunday :(.I dunno anyone have a stock EA81 with an engine that they could measure the compressed length of the struts?Or better yet an EJ22 with no suspension lift?  

On an EA81 the top spring perch goes like this -\_    

                     If you could measure from here ---^

         to the lower spring perch that would be great, in case thats not clear thats the bottom edge of where the top spring holder is tallest.

 

 

on the plus side I should be able to upload pics on monday because I will have access to a newer computer.


Edited by Uberoo, 14 March 2014 - 10:53 PM.


#27 Uberoo

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:43 PM

I was able to measure the compressed strut length at ride height so with the help of a friend I tacked it in place while he eyeballed the camber of the wheel.I set the wheel 0* camber or at least as close as I could get using an extension for my shop vac. set extension against wheel and make the bottom of the extension flat on the floor.looks straight to me :).I set the strut 1/2" more compressed that it would have been with an ea81 to better approximate the EJ22.

 

Said friend helped clean up the shop and helped with a few things as needed.

 

dropping the strut tower is alot of work compared to normal strut blocks but now I will have room for a bigger brake booster/MC, as well as room for an airfilter on the passenger side for my snorkel.So I wont need to have a big unsightly paint can on the roof to house the air filter.Shame I'm making this one functionally pretty and not actually pretty..



#28 Uberoo

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 04:11 PM

As promised here are some pics.

 

This is the passenger side rust hole with the rust cut out.

This is with a patch panel welded in.

 

The next few pics detail the construction or deconstruction of the new lower strut tower:

 

First I took my dremel with a cut off wheel and made a few cuts through the metal where the top band of shteetmetal was on the strut tower.From those marks I made a upper cut line and measured 7" down to make a lower cut line.

 

Then I cut it out using my favorite method: torch.

Then I did the same with the strut mounting pad to get the most structually sound part of the tower to build off.

After grinding the edges smooth it was time to get the strut tower tacked/welded into place.So I removed the spring from the strut and used some ducttape to hold the strut at its compressed lenght at ride height with an engine in place.Bolted the suspension up and with the help of a friend I got it sitting roughly where I want it.

Some cutting and tacking to make everything fit nice.

some more tacking.

finally ground down the welds and sprayed some paint on it.

 

I might add a brace from the upper frame rail to the strut mounting pad,but I'll wait to see how it does on its first wheeling trip.I made the lowered strut tower out of 16 gauge steel vs the factory 18 gauge single layered stuff so I will see how it goes..

Now to work on the passenger side.



#29 RustyBrat

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 04:32 PM

I like this idea! Just hopefully its strong enough

#30 Uberoo

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 07:58 PM

So I have the passenger side strut tower cut out but I have a slight dilemma: I bought a EA81 front clip for $50 to use its suspension, while most the suspension is complete It was missing a few parts for the passenger side.With the parts I have I could possibly rig something up.I am wondering if just to mock up where the passenger strut goes if I could just put a passsenger side control arm on the complete driver side suspension and use that to mock up the suspension.Would there be any differences other than the spindle/brakes would be flipped?At this point it doesn't matter where the tie rods/brakes are on the spindle as long as the wheel is mounted up correctly and the whole strut assembly is cambered/castered correctly.

 

While I could take apart the complete driver side strut and use some parts to get it more or less correct that is alot of work including pulling the strut apart to take its spring out.I am wondering if I could just use the passenger control arm to position where the strut should go using the control arm mounts on the crossmember.Again not driving but just mocking up the suspension so I can fabricate the passenger side strut tower.



#31 Uberoo

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:40 PM

So what is the difference between 4wd and sedan markings on the top hat for the strut?Most of the time I shove the strut in place without noticing or caring if both struts have 4wd pointing toward the front or the back or a mix of the two.



#32 Uberoo

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 06:39 PM

I think I figured it out.The strut isnt centered on that top hat rather its offset.The 4wd side gives the most offset to give the most caster,The more positive caster,the more the car wants to go straight,so if you hit a rock or berm offroad more caster will help keep the car straight, but at the expense of increased steering effort.A FWD car presumably wont be taken offroad so their isn't a need for as much caster to keep the car straight after finding rocks because presumably there arn't as many large rocks on the road.With less caster means its easier to park because it takes less steering effort.

 

I Think anyway...probably wrong though



#33 monstaru

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:12 PM

It is most definitely strong enough. At least as strong as the welds. A few of us watched his first monstrosity bend and break.
good for him. He is moving on.
NOW, Robert. What welder is being used? I am sure it is here, but we should reiterate for my point.
If that is a stick welder you are getting better.
If it is wire feed TURN it up...
It really helps to do sheet metal welding technique of spot welding around the perimeter until it is closed.


Your catching up. Dropping all of the body mounts is like number 3 of the Subaru lift manual out of 9.
LOL
and damn.
You think to much!
GOod job! KEEP GOING. and going and going and going and going and going. lol
cheers

Edited by monstaru, 25 March 2014 - 09:15 PM.


#34 Uberoo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:20 PM

I am using a Lincoln 140C 110V mig welder with 100% CO2.For the most part I set the welder at the settings for "X" metal thickness and adjust them up or down depending on how the weld is doing.



#35 4play

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:44 PM

if you can switch to 75%argon 25% co2 it welds mutch better. just my experience.



#36 Uberoo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:54 PM

I was on Pirate4x4 and I cam across a long travel H3 build. http://www.pirate4x4...vel-build.html. After reading that I was inspired to start experimenting with the subaru IFS to see where it binds up the worst and what is killing travel.First off the radius rod bushing kills alot of travel right of the bat.It pivots on a different axis as the control arm, so it flex it gets comes from the bushing squishing-bad bad bad.. Another thing that kills suspension travel are the locations for the control arm pivots.The control arm pivots are not in line with the inner DOJ. So as the suspension cycles the axle needs to change length, so a certain amount of plunging is needed-the DOJ.Problem is towards the extremes of up or down travel the DOJ bottoms out and loads the CV joint in compression.On an EA81,any suspension lift causes the CV to be run in compression drastically shortening its life and putting extra stress on the DOJ.This is why suspension lifts on EA81 vehicles tend to eat axles,EA82 vehicles have a wider suspension so at that height there is less angle, so less compressive forces.After all of that the strut becomes the limiting factor.However,making the control arm pivot points in line with the DOJ and the radius rod pivots in line with the control arm would probally yield 5" of suspension travel without destroying even EA81 axles.Finally like most people I originally thought the CV axle limited the travel so I put a rear diff on a stack of tires and attached a front EA81 axle to it and measured its total upward/downward deflection with the CV joint kept parallel to the ground.A stock EA81 axle is capable of 14.5" of travel and it would still be able to turn even at those extremes.In the hummer build they used a GM axle that only has 10" of travel.By moving the control arm pivots inward and making sure the suspension pivoted on the same axis they got 12" of travel vs the stock 4".

 

On my build I plan to take care of or at least address the radius rod pivot and the control arms not pivoting inline with the DOJ.



#37 Uberoo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:54 PM

if you can switch to 75%argon 25% co2 it welds mutch better. just my experience.

I know but mixed gas is so much more expensive.



#38 86hatchback

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:35 PM

Don't forget to address the steering rack if you move your pivot points, like using a dodge Intrepid rack as the inner tie rods connect in the center not the ends. Keep it coming looks wicked.

#39 Uberoo

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:45 PM

Once I get the pivot points moved toward the center I'll see what I can do about the steering.

 

Oddly enough subaru compromised heavily on wheel travel to minimize bumpsteer during the limited amount of travel it has.



#40 Uberoo

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 04:53 PM

Exactly how much longer are EA82 control arms vs their EA81 counterparts?I found out that with a 5 speed DR and EA81 axles roughly 19" is the span from the center of each inner DOJ. proper control arm geometry would put the control arms 18" apart.They are currently 23" which means I would have to move the control arm mounts 2.5" inward.I am wondering if I could use EA82 control arms rather than extend the EA81 control arms.I know EA82 suspension under an EA81 increases the track width by 1.5" per side but how much longer are EA82 control arms?

 

Also can I use EA81 balljoints/spindles with EA82 control arms?



#41 Uberoo

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:37 PM

So I have ran into a slight snag.I can't mock up where the suspension should go without having the transmission and its crossmember to mock things up,but I just got a new job so I should soon be able to afford to go by the engine/transmission/and various front end parts...

 

So while that part of the project got delayed I turned to the wiring harness.While the body wiring harness of a 78 brat doesn't have alot of wires there were still a few wires that could be removed.The brat originally had a carb and distributor, With the ej swap its wires are not needed so they went bye bye.Same with the horn,the radiator fan,the temp and oil pressure gauge wires.Not to mention various unused connectors for items this particular brat didn't have.Inside the car the radio,glove box light,ash tray light,dome light,seat belt buzzer/light,handbrake light, seat belt timer,and most of the wires for the instrument cluster-GONE.

 

I'm not running the factory instrument cluster because: the speedometer was shot and wouldn't have been accurate especially with the bigger tires.Then there is the matter of the gauges themselves.With the EJ swap I would need an oil pressure and a temp gauge,while I could wire up the engine to the 40 year old gauges I wouldn't trust them anyway. Finally with the bigger fuel tank I am putting in its sender wouldn't even work with the original gauge.So instead of the factory cluster I will make my own cluster with new oil,temp,volts,and fuel gauges.The speedometer will be my GPS semi-permanently mounted where the cluster would have been anyway.Then I will put LEDs on top of the dash for the left/right turn signal indicators,the high beam indicator,and the check engine light for the EJ22.

 

All said and done I removed 1.5-2 lbs of wiring.Now to tape up what is left of the dash wiring and string out the body harness in the car so I can cut the wires for the headlights.I'm rewiring the headlights so:

1: they are powered by relays

2: so there will be no wires that go across the original lower core support,instead the wires for the driver side lights will be ran by the firewall then to their destination.

While I am at it the starter solenoid wire will also be fed by a relay.


Edited by Uberoo, 17 April 2014 - 09:39 PM.


#42 Uberoo

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 01:08 AM

I suppose its time for an update of sorts.Sence we last met:

 

I found a job

bought a truck

mentored my friend in restoring a 78 mercedes benz 300 CD

lost the job

finished work on the MB

worked a bunch of odd jobs

In addition to dealing with various family BS

 

So I haven't had much time to work on my projects but I was able to install the front suspension crossmember. Then I was able to remove the sound deadening tar from the floor of the brat to find its various cancer locations. Tonight I was able to cut out most of that cancer. Once I get that fixed the new EJ22 and 5 speed DR that I got from pull and save will go in so I can start mocking up the front suspension soon.

 

So current plan is to weld in patch panels to the floor, remake my EA/EJ adapter plate so I don't have to drill out the holes on the EJ, stuff ej22+5sp DR combo into 78 brat,then mock up the super dooper long travel front suspension geometry thats in my head.I also need to go to a parts store and get some inline fuse holders for the relayed headlights and starter.Then go strip the ej harness.I thought of integrating the harnesses but I would rather be able to take this engine/harness and put it in another shell if this one happens to bend in half or something...

 

I will post up some pics of what ive done so far tomorrow. 






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