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191 replies to this topic

#176 Uberoo

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 05:41 PM

So I've been doing little things here and there, but Ive been busy fixing everything else in the 'hood.So I cut out the driver side floorboard for its tube,I wirewheeled and ground away all the crap that was on the metal.Welded seams left over from cutting.Got the new tube fitted into place and tacked in before I ran out of CO2,and all the welding shops are closed on weekends,terrific. So I guess I will play video games and drink beer this weekend rather than work on stuff.I did remember to take a pic of the tube tacked in but thats all I got.looks remarkably similar to the passenger side except its on the other side.



#177 Uberoo

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 01:13 AM

I was pretty bummed about not being able to get anything done over the weekend so I went and bought 50' of 1 1/4 schedule 40 pvc to mock up the rollcage.I tried heating it up and bending it but it would kink or not bend very precisely even with the tube filled with sand.So I decided to try my hand pie cutting the bends, its a stupid amount of work but hopefully the "bends" will resemble smooth curves enough that I can give the complete PVC sections to him and he can bend up some tube with minimal time involved.Otherwise it would be cost prohibitive for him to make a cage from all the math involved,bending tube is easy when you have a jig to check it against.



#178 pontoontodd

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:55 AM

You could use electrical conduit (EMT) instead.  1.5" conduit is almost exactly 1.75" OD, you can buy the bends and straights and tack weld them together for your templates.

 

If you want to stick with the PVC, you can get elbows that will probably be close to a tubing bend.  A quick search shows Home Depot has these for $3, they're called long elbows:

http://www.homedepot...HD112/100347073

You can chop off the outer part of the collars to make it fit flush with the inside of the car if that's a concern.



#179 Uberoo

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 03:36 PM

For better or worse I was just going to use 1.5x.109 for the cage because its not a racecar but a slow offroader So the cage just has to protect against slow flops onto the side or roof.The cage will also be tied into the structural parts of the car body as well, not to mention tacked to the sheetmetal at various places So hopefully the body its self will add some strength to the cage.



#180 Uberoo

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:05 PM

So I worked on more of the mock up today.Once I figured out the process for making pie cuts the whole process ended up fairly smoothly.Took about 6 hours to make the Main hoop.Pie Cuts Suck.After making one side I had to finish everything to see how it turned out.In my case the top ended up 4" too short,and the upper left bend needs a slight angle adjustment.If you are doing this this yourself you will most likely make mistakes,but they are easily corrected in the pvc.

 

My first attempt.



#181 Uberoo

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 10:16 PM

About 20 minutes later I came up with this:

Its not 100% perfect but its workable.


Edited by Uberoo, 05 June 2016 - 10:19 PM.


#182 Uberoo

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Posted 06 June 2016 - 05:24 PM

I might need to revise the upper bends for that main hoop they look a little too tight,Need to get ahold of my friend with the bender to see what his smallest radius die for 1.5" is.



#183 Uberoo

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 11:51 AM

So from looking online it seems tubes are strongest with the largest possible bend radius, so I will rework the mockup to use 6.5" CLR on the top bends rather than the 3.5" CLR it has now.Also from searching the internet it seems the common consensus is to go with 1.5x.120 wall tube for vehicles from 2-3000 lbs. The importance of mockups I guess,changes now are much cheaper and easier than if it was made out of metal.


Edited by Uberoo, 07 June 2016 - 11:52 AM.


#184 Uberoo

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 09:09 PM

So in prepration for making the rollcage mockups punch through the roof and also to seam weld the existing roof structure I removed the windshield.The old rubber seal was very hard and brittle so I cut it to get the glass out rather than risk breaking the windshield.The seal itself didn't want to come off the roof so I ended up burning it out with a propane torch.So much for the "pristine" roof paint-lolz,the roof paint was so crappy I had zero issues about laying body panels on top of it from the start of the project..

 

On the plus side, the window rail was perfectly preserved with no rust,sweet.

 

Taking the glass out really isn't picture worthy because it really doesn't change the look of the car much.Especially when most of the burn marks/discoloration from the torch rubbed right off.



#185 Uberoo

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 09:21 PM

In my quest for more suspension travel I found out that EJ rear struts have almost twice the travel as EA front struts.Then at the same time I decided to use 1st gen legacy or impreza front suspension under my 83 rx7 to get rid of the recirculating ball steering and relatively fragile front suspension construction.I ended up finding a 93 impreza parts car to rob stuff from and have most of the parts I needed from it.

 

Now that I have some of the parts next to each other I am a little unsure how to proceed. The EJ rear strut is much bigger than the ea81 front strut both in length and diameter in addition to mounting style.Rather than try to modify the ea81 knuckles to accept the EJ struts it seems easier to use the EJ front knuckle with the rear strut along with an ej front tophat .I'm just wondering if it is possible to use EA 4x140 hubs on the EJ knuckles for bolt pattern reasons because it is easy to find offroad wheels in 6 lug not so much for the EJ 5x100.While the bigger brakes would be awesome I can always swap in some toyota brakes on the EA stuff.Here is a picture of the two struts side by side so you can get an idea of what I'm dealing with.

 

I first thought of removing the ej mounts and welding on some EA style mounts but that ended badly last time I tried in addition the struts are a full 1/4" bigger in diameter so the EA knuckle wouldn't be very strong with that much material removed.Then I thought about cutting apart some EJ rear knuckles to use the mounting ears but I'm not sure if there is enough meat to build up the EA knuckles, to say nothing of welding cast iron.What do you think?I would like to use those longer struts because they are about as long as any that I can find before going to coil overs,but I would still like to use the 4/6x140 pattern for its availability.



#186 pontoontodd

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 10:12 PM

In my quest for more suspension travel I found out that EJ rear struts have almost twice the travel as EA front struts.Then at the same time I decided to use 1st gen legacy or impreza front suspension under my 83 rx7 to get rid of the recirculating ball steering and relatively fragile front suspension construction.I ended up finding a 93 impreza parts car to rob stuff from and have most of the parts I needed from it.

 

Now that I have some of the parts next to each other I am a little unsure how to proceed. The EJ rear strut is much bigger than the ea81 front strut both in length and diameter in addition to mounting style.Rather than try to modify the ea81 knuckles to accept the EJ struts it seems easier to use the EJ front knuckle with the rear strut along with an ej front tophat .I'm just wondering if it is possible to use EA 4x140 hubs on the EJ knuckles for bolt pattern reasons because it is easy to find offroad wheels in 6 lug not so much for the EJ 5x100.While the bigger brakes would be awesome I can always swap in some toyota brakes on the EA stuff.Here is a picture of the two struts side by side so you can get an idea of what I'm dealing with.

 

The EJ (Legacy and Forester at least) rear struts definitely have a lot of travel.

Can you put an EA hub in an EJ knuckle/wheel bearings and see if/how it fits?  It sounds like you have both.  My guess is it's smaller than the EJ hub, do you have access to a lathe so you could make sleeves?

I can't remember, are you using an EJ engine/trans for this?  Wondering what axles you're planning on using and how that would work with your hub choice.



#187 Uberoo

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 10:24 PM

I was planning on using EA81 axles because they are short and stout enough that I *theoretically* can get long travel out of them just by moving the inner control arm pivot points inward to reduce axle plunge.Power wise EJ22/DR 5 speed through a divorced transfercase feeding into 4.11 diffs.



#188 Uberoo

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 11:02 PM

I need to get better tools before I can take the front knuckle apart.Broke my 1/2" craftsman socket wrench trying to get the axle nut off, and my impact wrench didn't have enough power to get it broke loose.

 

Now I need to return that socket wrench and see if the pawn shops have a 1/2 and 3/8" breaker bars awesome.



#189 pontoontodd

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:17 AM

I was planning on using EA81 axles because they are short and stout enough that I *theoretically* can get long travel out of them just by moving the inner control arm pivot points inward to reduce axle plunge.Power wise EJ22/DR 5 speed through a divorced transfercase feeding into 4.11 diffs.

 

So you're going to run EA rear axles all around?

 

You should do a little more digging on struts, maybe you can find something that would be an easier fit or have even more travel.  When I was looking, Monroe had some info on their website but it looks like they've taken it down.  KYB has this for shocks:

http://www.kyb.com/k...ros/dimensions/

If you click on the link you can look up by application and then see length, stroke, etc but I couldn't find a chart with strut dimensions.

If they do have one, let me know!



#190 Uberoo

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 09:49 PM

I'm not using EA81 axles all around per se. The front I was hoping just to use front ea81 axles,the rear on the other hand uses EA81 axle shafts with legacy DOJ's on both ends.If the ea81 fronts are not strong enough after optimizing the geometry I will play around with axles to see if I can get ea82 or EJ CV joints on the ea81 axle shafts.The best axle would be an outer CV at each end for lots of flex,but the suspension would need to be very optimized so that there is no axle plunge at all.

 

I found out about the long travel ej rear struts from monroes website,volvo 740 front struts are also pretty long IIRC.



#191 Uberoo

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 10:26 PM

I had another thought from the dumb idea department.What if I converted that long  rear strut into a long  front coilover by converting the suspension to a dual wishbone suspension? Then I just have to figure out how to mount a balljoint in the knuckle where the strut went.

 

 

I mocked everything up and there is enough space around the brake booster to mount those as coilovers....the cogs they are are turning...and shearing teeth.


Edited by Uberoo, 21 July 2016 - 10:52 PM.


#192 pontoontodd

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 05:14 PM

I had another thought from the dumb idea department.What if I converted that long  rear strut into a long  front coilover by converting the suspension to a dual wishbone suspension? Then I just have to figure out how to mount a balljoint in the knuckle where the strut went.

 

 

I mocked everything up and there is enough space around the brake booster to mount those as coilovers....the cogs they are are turning...and shearing teeth.

 

We did that on the front of my car, fitting a ball joint and making steering clearance was a real pain.  It basically worked but the subframe/body definitely wasn't designed to be loaded that way.  You're constructing all that from scratch so you wouldn't have that problem.  If you do that there's no reason to use a strut, just use a shock.  I'd recommend something adjustable even if it's cheap.

 

Overall I'm much happier with the long travel struts than the a-arm setup we made.






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