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YAPI2.5HGT (Yet another Phase I 2.5 headgasket thread)


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11 replies to this topic

#1 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 04:31 PM

A friend bought a 96 Outback a couple months ago that only has 134k on it.  Surprise surprise, a couple weeks ago on his way home from xmas, it overheated, blew coolant out the reservoir, and filled the rad hoses with air.  He had it towed home and it has been parked since.  Head gasket(s), right?  Hopefully since it was only overheated once, it should still be in pretty good condition internally?

 

So, now I get to fix it, but I have a few questions first.

 

1stsubaru has a gasket set for $300.  He emailed me a list of included part numbers, and it says it includes HGs #11044aa112.  Punch that number into their site, and it comes up with 11044aa114.  Then I read here about the 610/633 gaskets.  Which ones are the latest & greatest for a Phase 1 DOHC?  edit: did he send me the gasket list for an EJ22?

 

I'm planning to use GDs head resurfacing technique.  Is there anything special needed to prep the deck surface on the block?  Suction cup with the glass/sandpaper used to do the heads? 

 

Head gaskets go on dry, right?  No copper spray?

 

Was thinking about this timing belt/tensioner set: http://www.ebay.com/...=item4602178e3e

 

Thought for discussion:

I recently read on a different forum an old trick for hotrodding V8s.  They would chamfer the edges of the headbolt holes, both in the head, and in the block.  The idea being it would help spread the pressure farther out on the gasket.  Kinda similar to how skis are built with a bow so that when you stand on them, your weight is distributed over the entire ski, and not just under your boots.  Would that provide any benefit here?  Thoughts?



#2 grossgary

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 05:24 PM

A friend bought a 96 Outback a couple months ago that only has 134k on it.  Surprise surprise, a couple weeks ago on his way home from xmas, it overheated, blew coolant out the reservoir, and filled the rad hoses with air. ?

 

With such a short time frame and given how these engines can initially have symptoms spread out over long intervals, there's a significant chance the car had an issue prior to this and was immediately sold because of it.  But circumstantial and who knows...so it doesn't matter now.

 

Yes sounds like typical EJ25D headgasket failure.  Simply, obvious tests should be done first though to make sure.  Bleed coolant, Subaru OEM thermostat, no leaks.

 


about the 610/633 gaskets.  Which ones are the latest & greatest for
a Phase 1 DOHC?

 

yes - you definitely want the 610 gasket for this engine.  11044AA610

 

not sure why they would give you anything else.  if you told them a 1996 manual or they inputed a manual trans, for 1996 that would be an EJ22 engine.

 

not sure what you mean by suction cups for the heads, but it's real simple.  get your flat machinist grade granite or glass lying on something smooth, cement the sandpaper to it and do your work.  it's really easy.

 

i wouldn't play with chamfering holes i don't think that's going to matter or alleviate the underlying causes of EJ25D headgasket woes. you're approaching the job right and are likely to have many more reliable miles.



#3 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:45 PM

With such a short time frame and given how these engines can initially have symptoms spread out over long intervals, there's a significant chance the car had an issue prior to this and was immediately sold because of it.  But circumstantial and who knows...so it doesn't matter now.

 

Yes sounds like typical EJ25D headgasket failure.  Simply, obvious tests should be done first though to make sure.  Bleed coolant, Subaru OEM thermostat, no leaks.

 

 

yes - you definitely want the 610 gasket for this engine.  11044AA610

 

not sure why they would give you anything else.  if you told them a 1996 manual or they inputed a manual trans, for 1996 that would be an EJ22 engine.

 

not sure what you mean by suction cups for the heads, but it's real simple.  get your flat machinist grade granite or glass lying on something smooth, cement the sandpaper to it and do your work.  it's really easy.

 

i wouldn't play with chamfering holes i don't think that's going to matter or alleviate the underlying causes of EJ25D headgasket woes. you're approaching the job right and are likely to have many more reliable miles.

 

He has driven it for just over 1000 miles since he got it, and had not experienced any overheating.  Hopefully it was a new thing.  The main problem with troubleshooting is that the car is 4 hours from me, and he's not too mechanically inclined.

 

The suction cup is just to hold the glass while working on the block surface. 

 

Ok, I'll definitely get the 610 gaskets.  Do the timing cover gaskets really need replaced?  They seem pretty spendy by themselves. 



#4 djmark7

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 05:12 PM

never mind, brain fart here


Edited by djmark7, 10 January 2014 - 05:14 PM.


#5 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:39 AM

Ok, I'm finally up here working on this thing and have a couple :derp: questions:

 

1.  What's the trick (or is there one) to aligning the flex plate and TC with the intake still in place?  It would be easier to do with the intake off, but doesn't make sense to have to install the intake only after the engine is back in.  There's barely enough room to see in there, let alone get proper torque on the bolts.

 

2.  Is there a factory lift point on the front left of the engine? 



#6 lmdew

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:18 AM

If the intake if off, leave it off until you have the flex plate bolted up to the TC.  The intake goes on easy enough.  If you already have the Intake on but have not bolted up the engine to the frame you can raise the engine and trans and get the bolts started and almost tight from the bottom and then use a 6 point 1/4 socket to finish from the top through the access hole.   Better access if you pull the plugs on the TPS and the breather hoses going to the PCV.

 

I use the AC bracket of one of the 14 mm bolts that hold it to hook up the chain.

 

Make sure the TC is seated completely, if you push back and rotate it, it will just hit the starter gear.  Lots of information on seating the torque converter.



#7 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:18 PM

thanks.  Now what's the trick to getting to the lower engine - transmission bolt on the drivers side :mad: 

 

Can you tell this is my first time fighting with working on a 2.5? 



#8 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 09:30 PM

Ok, hopefully one last :derp: question.

 

Where are the shims I'm supposed to be checking?  I took the cams out, and now have 16 'buckets' that were between each cam and the valve (I kept them in order), but I don't see anything that resembles a shim?  No flat discs like I was expecting?



#9 86BRATMAN

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 11:31 PM

Your 96 doesn't have shims, it has hydraulic lash adjusters in the under side of the buckets. You don't even need to keep them in order, bleed them and toss them back in.

#10 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:52 PM

Awesome.  That makes it easier.

 

I've found conflicting information for the torque needed for the cam sprocket bolts.  One page says 58 ft/lbs (sounds WAY too high).  Another says 28ft/lbs, which sounds more reasonable.  I'm going to assume it's the lower value unless corrected.



#11 grossgary

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:36 PM

timing cover gaskets are not needed, i've never replaced one.  

 

my 1997 DOHC EJ25 FSM shows 58 ft-lbs.  I'd lean towards that over the lower number.

 

i've never properly torque the cam sprocket bolts and never had an issue - but i suppose you should.

 

similar confusion over those two numbers here:

http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=2191386

 

to further muddy the waters, here's a thread with even more EJ25 confusion:

http://www.subarufor...t-torque-65504/



#12 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:21 PM

Hmm, I guess I need a breaker bar to get them off... further searching shows that they should be 'really tight', so apparently the 58 is correct.  Thanks.






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