edrach Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I recently decided to upgrade to synthetic and I'm somewhat partial to Amsoil. I went with 10W-30 intially, but I'm thinking of going to 15W-40. Any thoughts? Also, is there an Amsoil dealer on the Board in the Seattle area who would discount the oil a bit? I'd even consider outside of the Seattle area since I buy by the case anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterD Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I recently decided to upgrade to synthetic and I'm somewhat partial to Amsoil. I went with 10W-30 intially, but I'm thinking of going to 15W-40. Any thoughts? Also, is there an Amsoil dealer on the Board in the Seattle area who would discount the oil a bit? I'd even consider outside of the Seattle area since I buy by the case anyway. its a good oil, although i would not use it in an old subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 its a good oil, although i would not use it in an old subaru. Explain.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northguy Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 its a good oil, although i would not use it in an old subaru. OK, I'll bite. Why wouldn't you use it in an older Subaru? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_talk Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I’ve got 5-30 Amsoil in my RX right now, was the choice of the PO, the engine has 252,000 miles on it and the only real leak is the drain plug, which I will rectify at the next oil change. The oil pressure is with in spec by the stock gauge but since the manual doesn’t recommend 5-30 for "sustained high speed” driving, which is just what my commute is, I’ll be switching to 10/15-40. I may not say with Amsoil, I may not even stay with synthetic, after all, the car was designed for conventional oil over 15 years ago and current conventional oils are much better than they were then, seems kinda like running 92 octane gas in a car designed for 87. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Saw a car at the JY with an amsoil box/wrapper in the back seat.... had 290k on it. EA81. Make of that what you will. I personally use chevron 10-30 or 20-50 depending on mileage. In my mind, EA series engines are not precision machinery, and will likely go 300k+ with any brand of oil if proper respect is given to amount, viscosity, and regular changes. And once I hit 300k+, I've gotten more than my money out of the engine, and a new car is in order. Unless it's something special like a Brat, then I'll carefully rebuild an engine for it. It's a bit like toothpaste really - brand doesn't matter so much as actually using it regularly (and hopefully changing it each time!). Same logic goes for filters. Another point is that the simple fact that there is anything to debate about at all speaks to the quality of todays widely availible oils. I'm not saying there's not uses for *extremely* high quality oils out there, I'm just saying that this probably isn't one of them. It's like the bottled water craze - our city water supplies are so damn clean that it's almost a crime to charge for bottled water at all. It's all a lot of smoke blown up your backside for the most part. Having said that, I probably wouldn't buy the K-mart special 5 gallon 10-30 oil. It's suspect simply because of it's cheap price.... the adage "you get what you pay for" appies somewhat as well. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterD Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 My reasoning is poor experience with synthetic oil in older cars. im sure my scirocco worked great untill the second owner came along and messed up the perfect maintinece record of the first owner. causing many little things to happen. I then resorted to Chevron Dello400 15w-40 and have no major oil leakage. this oil is also run in th 84 suby i got and works great. i can see synthetic being fine if the seals are in good shape. who knows maybe this older ea81 engins can take synthetic and not leak...i don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 Believe it or not, I wanted to change to synthetic not for the oil quality itself, but the extended oil change interval. I have been an anal user of Castrol GTX every 2000 miles on all of my cars, but changing the oil every three weeks in my daily driver was beginning to get to me (along with changing the oil in the Brat and my wife's car), so I switched to synthetic to get a 6000 mile interval. The '91 Legacy has 123K on it now so I don't consider it old yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 my old boss had two dodge ram 2500 pickups with cummins turbo diesels, plus three bailers with Deutz Airdiesel air-cooled 4 bangers, all running 20W50 Amsoil Synthetic, and the trucks had been run with Amsoil since day 1, and the bailers I think since he bought them, one truck has almost 300k on it and it runs like a TOP, the other had not quite 180k and it would still shoot 4 rooster tails towing the bailer (Not that I'd know from experience, it was the unnamed stacker operator that took over for me one night who found that out...) The only problem with synthetic in and older car is that it will leak more. If you have no leaks, fine, but if you do, look out lol. Also, I recommend against using 10W40, use 15W40 or 10W30. In order to get the wide viscosity range of 10W40, they have to make the polymer chains really long, and so unless you are really anal about changing your oil, it will cause sludge build up. (Although a cup of diesel or a can of motor flush before each oil change will prevent this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 my turbo brat has been run the last 75k with Mobil 1 synthetic, and no oil leaks, and runs awesome...... has 122k on motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 an anal user of castrol oil eh?! I dont suppose it meant to come out like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 The way I see it, you are changing the oil to remove the impurities that the *engine* has imparted to the oil by the very nature of the way engines work. Small metal particles, carbon, blow by, etc. I do not see how any change in the type of oil would cause the engine to impart fewer impurities into the oil. Especially in the case of an older engine. Thus by 2k or 3k miles the same amount of crap has been secreted by the engine into the oil, and should be removed.... regardless of what type of oil you are using. Does a cat impart fewer impurities into it's litter box if you change brands of litter?!? This is of course an over-simplification, as there are some trace quantities of junk in a non-synthetic oil (in synthetics too actually - at least acording to Castrol, who's synthetic isn't really!), but I think you get my meaning. You couldn't possibly reduce the amount of impurities by 3 fold simply by saying the oil comes with fewer impurities to begin with, And just changing to cleaner oil from the bottle is not going to reduce or eliminate blow-by or other sources of contamination. Especially in an old engine with lots and lots of sludge and shellac'd oil sitting around waiting to contaminate your 4 new quarts of don't-drop-the-soap-expensive synthetic oil. I say line your pockets, not those oil execs. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I honestly dont buy into the argument that synthetic oil will 'leak more' on older engines. When I bought my Buick Regal it had a 1972 cadillac engine rebuilt some time in the 1980s. It had 110,000 miles on that rebuild when I got it. I put another 20,000 on it. Not long after getting it I switched to Valvoline full synthetic oil. I opted for this since that engine runs HOT and synthetic oil stands up better at higher temps befor breaking down. Befor I switched from standard oil to syntehtic the engine consistantly sweat enough oil to leave a small (4" ? ) wet spot when parked overnight. After switching to full synthetic it no longer left any spot of oil. I'm not claiming it fixed any leak (which I could obviously tell it still did sweat some) but it most certainly did not leak any more then standard oil. This idea that synthetic oil will make leaks worse or cause the engine to leak is a remnent of when synthetic oil first came out. While it is still a remote possible out come of switching from standard to syntehtic it's honestly nothing to worry about in EA82 Subaru engines http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/seals.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_talk Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I’m with GD on this one (again... I guess great minds think alike and all that ). And, I’m finally down a quart in the RX after about 1500 miles (not bad for a 252,000 mile engine with a weak cylinder), so I found the Amsoil dealer in town and he said $6.50 a quart… I guess that answers the question of if I’m sticking with Amsoil or not… NOT. He also said he would not recommend it for a high mileage older Sube, he said to top it up with any quality conventional, and change it over when its due… sounds like a good plan to me. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWX Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Also, I recommend against using 10W40, use 15W40 or 10W30. In order to get the wide viscosity range of 10W40, they have to make the polymer chains really long, and so unless you are really anal about changing your oil, it will cause sludge build up. (Although a cup of diesel or a can of motor flush before each oil change will prevent this)but what about 20W-50 it has the same spread as 10W-40 but I never hear people saying that about 20W-50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted May 1, 2004 Author Share Posted May 1, 2004 And, I’m finally down a quart in the RX after about 1500 miles (not bad for a 252,000 mile engine with a weak cylinder), so I found the Amsoil dealer in town and he said $6.50 a quart… I guess that answers the question of if I’m sticking with Amsoil or not… NOT. Interesting, my local dealer charges $5.35 per quart. I was hoping someone on the USMB could offer a better price for a case quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 All I know is that I will NEVER NEVER run anything but mobil 1 synth in my subes. I also run at 4k miles intervals, with a NAPA (its a WIX) Gold oil filter. I ran 20w-50, and I lost an engine. I dont know how everyone else runs it all the time and doesnt have something go wrong. Synthetic will not make leaks worse. Bad seals that you dont change, will, in time, get worse. I know this from the GL-10. The cam covers were original, and when i slapped the 9.5:1 engine in it, I didnt both with changing them. They leaked. Got worse too. The RX's i have, switched them over to Mobil as soon as I got them. Leaks? Sure they had a small little drip after hours of sitting...and some sweating...but no more with synth than with non-synth. After switching the leaks seemed to not be as much as they were. I know that from after tearing into the 9.5:1 engine, it was sparkling clean. The block it self was cleaner after 24000 miles of mobil 1 than when i installed it. It ran smoother than anything else too. I would never use castrol syntech, as Ive read that the syntec is almost the same as most dino oils. Mobil and AMSOIL are the top of the line. There are racing oils...MOTUL and valvoline....ive use the valvoline racing, and i belive the Mobil 1 street stuff is better. If i were to ever be forced to run a Dino oil...id use castrol GTX 10w-30. Ive heard notihng but good news about the GTX, and in Legends car racing, we always ran the 20w-50 GTX, or mobil one, and we only lost engines because they were time to be lost...not because of the oil. Mobil 1 all the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda's 86 Brat Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 (this is Andrew) I actually have heard that about 20W-50 as well, but I've heard for some reason it's not as bad??? I dunno.. I was also told that if you change your oil every 3000 it is not really that much of an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 I use the napa oil (made by valvoline as are the filters i believe) and a dealership filter and crush gasket for the drain plug. Car loses some oil but it's got 208k on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NV Zeno Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 Ed, I use synth lubes (mostly Amsoil brand, BTW) in everything BUT the engine. Almost 300K now, and I've used everything from the $2.99/gal stuff at Target, to the premium dino blends. Seems like the engine has been the most trouble free component..still runs strong, no leaks or smoking. I figure regular changes at about 5000 mile intervals and a quality filter has contributed, also. My 2 bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NV Zeno Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 (After rereading your original post) Ed, the way my bud with lots-o-tools (was an Amsoil dlr at the time) got to the extended interval of I think it was 25 or 50K, was to install a Bypass Filtration system. This cost him a few bucks for the parts for the conversion (installed it himself), and I believe he merely changed the filter and added a quart every 5000 miles. This was on his '87 BMW. That car sits to this day in front of his barn with a blown engine (oil related) with about 285,000 on it. It has not been a particularly reliable car, and had many oil leaks during its lifetime. On a personal note, I love razzing him about my '83 EA81 with the same miles, run on a lifetime of dino oil, still running strong, all 70 horses( ). My 2 bucks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 I have a preferred customer membership with Amsoil. It costs me $20 a year, but I pay dealer cost for lubricants. I use the 5w-30 and 10w-30 engine oils in the soob, and soon the 10w-30 oil and synthetic ATF in the jeep. I am using the Mobil 1 75w-90 in the diffs, but the Amsoil gear lube should be just as good. Extending the drain interval is tricky business. Do it right and you can save some time and money. Do it wrong and you can ruin your engine. I don't care what any Amsoil dealer says, oil cannot be run far beyond the manufacturers recommendations safely without periodic analysis. To have the oil analyzed costs nearly as much as changing it with a $4.50 a quart oil and an $8 filter. That is not something I am interested in doing. My solution is to not have the oil analyzed and change the oil every three months, which works out to about 7500 miles. That is where I feel comfortable. I don't trust any BS about extending the drain interval for diffs and trannys using synthetic lubes. I change that stuff once a year. On a vehicle driven less I might go to once every two years. AFAIK all over the counter oils with the exception of Mobil 1 that call themselves synthetic are actually group III. Castrol, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Quaker State. Basically a "super refined" petroleum oil. Mobil 1 and Amsoil are group IV, poly alpha olefin. Synthesized from ethylene gas AFAIK. I think the group III is good stuff but for barely more you can have the real thing. I did read today on BITOG that Pennzoil may release a group IV PAO. If that has a kinematic viscosity near 12 I may take a look. I find 5 or 10w-30 Mobil 1 to be too thin, kinematic viscosity of 10, at the 20 weight end of a 30 weight. Amsoil 10w-30 is 11.9. Engine runs quieter and uses much less oil. FWIW Pennzoil high mileage (great oil BTW) has a kinematic viscosity of 12. Even the Amsoil guys say that 10w-40 is an oil best avoided. I would run the 10w-30 or the 15w-40 instead. It has been well worth the few extra bucks to extend my drain intervals from about every 6 weeks to every three months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted May 2, 2004 Author Share Posted May 2, 2004 My initial reason for going with the Amsoil was to extend the drain interval from the 2000 mile interval I was using with the Castrol to a 6000 mile interval with the Amsoil. I was just tired of changing the oil every 3 weeks; every 9 weeks is much more reasonable and I think it's justified with a quality synthetic oil. I had no intention of a 10k or higher change interval; I don't care what you run, that just doesn't make sense to me. I typically get 250K out of the cars I've owned with the Castrol; I would love to get more with synthetic but I certainly wouldn't count on that nor expect that. If it happens, that's fine but that was never a factor in my decision. I was also looking for someone who might have a better price on Amsoil than the $5.35/qt I'm paying now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 Dealer cost on the 10w-30 ATM is $4.55 a quart or $52.20 a case. For 15w-40 AME it's $4.00 a quart or $45.60 a case. For 15w-40 PCO it's $3.45 a quart or $39.00 a case. The PCO is a blend but should easily go 6k miles, Amsoil recommends twice the manufacturers recommendation on this one. The dealer markup is pretty slim, and I think you are paying a pretty good price. I pay the dealer cost but I have to pay shipping. I am going to start buying my ATM by the 2-1/2 gallon jug for $4.40 a quart, as cheap as I can buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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