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about to purchace 95 Legacy L Wagon AWD a few questions and confirmations


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25 replies to this topic

#1 Leebo

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 07:21 AM

so i know this thing is one of the non-interupting ejs. its got about 170k on the odo.  the current owner doesnt know if the timing belt was serviced at the 100k mark, so i will probably have this done.  does any one out there have any idea how much this might run me to have done at my local mechanic. or at least a reasonable asking price for timing belt replacment in one of these gems.

 

thanks

 

Lee



#2 Fairtax4me

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:06 AM

A reasonable price would be in the $500-800 range. Depending on parts cost, and labor rates in your area.

These are way easy to do yourself for about $200 in parts and a day or weekend if you've never done a timing job before.

#3 Leebo

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:38 PM

ya i saw there was a full you tube video on how to do it.  the only thing that sketched me out was the way the guy broke the nut on the crank shaft pully by putting a breaker bar on the socket and wedging it agains the body of the car, then turning it over real fast to break the bolt.  is there another way to break this bolt?

 

thanks

 

lee



#4 Leebo

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:50 PM

i think what i meant was the cam shaft pully



#5 Leebo

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:01 PM

no i meant the crank shaft. saw another vid where guy put it in 3rd gear, had some one hold the break down with the clutch out as he broke it.



#6 Fairtax4me

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:05 PM

If its a manual trans you put it in 5th and set the parking brake. Chock the wheels if the brake won't hold.

For auto trans there is a hole in the side of the bell-housing. (Someone has a picture around here but I cant ever find it) Stick a 1/4" Allen key or large Philips screwdriver in and spin the engine until it catches and slides into one of the holes in the flexplate.

#7 MilesFox

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:17 PM

Doing the brekaer bar method is fine and no cause for damage or screw-up as long as you keep the direction of rotation in mind.

 

Another way to do this is put the car in gear and stand on the brake as mentioned above. Mind you, that the tool will probably turn 1/4 turn just to talke all the slack from the engine and driveline before it starts torquing the bolt. So put on the tool to allow for a 180 degree turn of the breaker bar to accomplish this. 

 

Same or tightening, make sure to turn all the slack out of the driveline so the bolt can torqe up before you run out of travel for the tool (180 deg turn)

 

The volt vs the pulley should torque up a good 1/4 turn after it is snug. Torque value should be on the order of about 135-145 lb ft of torque.

 

1995 is a great model, since it has the same obd2 ecu as models thru 1998, but in most states, is not subject to emissions laws (for 1996 and later), and the engine has a non interference timing belt (no damage if it breaks) and the heads (composite gasket) are not prone to gasket failures like the later engines with MLS gaskets

 

Depending on your capacity, it's not a terrible idea to pull the engine out so you  have better access to the front if you want to go ahead and remove the cam sprockets and servince the seals. This way you can use your tools straight on the engine for proper torquing, and this allows easier access tot he valve cover s and oil pan, and the chance to replace the baffle plate seal behind the engine block.

 

Replace the water pump and the idler pulleys along with the timing belts as the belts fail more often from bad bearing or seizure more often than the belt itself giving up.

 

Doing all that work at once will essentially guarantee you 100,000 miles before you need to look at anything major



#8 upnorthguy

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:51 PM

Apparently I had a cheap allen key when I was working on my 95 a month or two ago, as I put it in the hole in the side of the bell housing and started to try to loosen the crank bolt and heard a little snap and clink clink..broke off the end of the allen and it fell to bottom of the bell housing.  I've switched to the largest phillips screwdriver I can fit into that hole.

, I did the breaker bar starter bump method the first time to loosen, but I agree with your thought that it makes me nervous.  Using the bell housing hole is easy and rock solid (provided you don't use a cheap allen key!)

This isn't the photo that grossgary seems to always have handy, but Beergarage has a decent shot (this shows a clutch flywheel instead of the flex plate in an auto)

00.jpg

 

It takes a little more fishing when the engine is in the car as there are hoses and things making it a tighter fit compared to the photo, but still plenty of room on the passenger side.  You can stand next to the passenger front wheel and spin the engine with your right hand on a socket wrench on the crank bolt and gently push in on the screwdriver to feel for the hole to come around as you turn the engine. 



#9 1badmkIrocco

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:20 PM

I just did the T-Belt/Water Pump Job on my EJ22 last month.  It was time consuming but it's doable with basic tools and paitence.  One thing to keep in mind if you decide to break the crank pulley bolt loose by cranking the engine is to either remove the coil wire or disconnect all the spark plug boots you don't want the car starting!  All it takes to break it loose is a quick bump of the key.

 

When reinstalling the timing belt just pay close attention when lining up all the timing marks and follow the directions closely.  There's a couple other .pdfs out there that outline the procedure in detail.  Parts cost for me were Less then $200, I purchased one of the kits on eBay (Tbelt, and Pulleys supposedly made in USA) and then an Aisin Waterpump off of Amazon for about $85

 

http://www.pra.org/p...es/overhaul.pdf

 

http://www.subaruout...e-winter-05.pdf

 

 



#10 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:20 PM

Another vote for the "starter bump" method. Just make sure you have it wedged right and it comes loosens right up.

 

The other option is to slide two socket extensions into the open holes on the front of the pulley, then wedge a really big screwdriver or a crow bar between them to keep it from rotating. Then you can just pull away on your breaker bar. But you'll probably want a cheater pipe on the bar because it takes a lot of "omph" tpo get it to break loose.

 

Done it both ways. Starter bump just seems easier.

 

more food for thought - non interference engines are great to learn timing belts on. If you don't get it right the first time, just try again. It's really as simple as it looks in the write ups though. Anyone who's not afraid of some wrenching can get it done.



#11 upnorthguy

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:22 AM

There is a good EJ22 timing belt kit on ebay for $136 with Aisin water pump by mizumoauto

 

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649



#12 Leebo

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:09 PM

dont really have the tools to take the whole motor out, ive seen a video where just the radiator fans were taken out and he was able to replace the timing belt and i imagine the water pump too.  i have also seen where the valve cover gaskets were replaces fairly easily with the motor still in the car.  im gonna inspect the timing belt and make sure its not about to blow out.  can the baffle plate seal be done with the engine still in the car?



#13 mikec03

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:49 PM

I don't know where the idea came from that you should pull the engine out for a timing belt change?  Here is a step by step procedure to replace the timing belt.

 

http://lovehorsepowe...egacy&Itemid=64

 

The engine bump works just fine to loosen the crank bolt.

 

You should get a harbor freight chain wrench to loosen and tighten the cam bolts.

 

You should buy or rent the torque wrenches for the bolts

 

The Miszumo aisin kit is really cheap!  I'll probably buy one for my 95.  It doesn't include the tensioner, but with the non interference 95 it's probably not essential.

 

I have no idea what a baffle plant seal is and I don't think anyone else does either.



#14 upnorthguy

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:58 PM

That oil separator (baffle) plate is between the engine and the transmission and requires the engine to be separated and removed (or at least lifted out of the engine compartment and spun around).  Some here have talked about dropping the transmission, but I'm not sure I've seen anyone post about replacing the separator plate from the rear, underneath the car, with the tranny removed.

 

The seal is made with ultra grey RTV.  BeerGarage has a nice write up: http://beergarage.co...ySeparator.aspx (note: ignore the info there about replacing the rear main seal...most here are of the opinion that replacing it, unless it is gushing oil, causes more problems than a new one "solves").



#15 Olnick

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:04 PM

You can fairly easily remove the entire radiator with fans still attached.  That gives you plenty of room to do the timing belt.  Don't waste a lot of time trying to inspect the belt--just plunge in and do the job.  Even an apparently good belt is no match for a failed idler pulley (especially the cogged one!)

 

Do the cam & crank seals while in there--and remove and re-seal the oil pump.

 

I've done all this on both a '95 and a '92 in the driveway with limited hand tools.  If I can do it I'll bet you can too!    

 

Valve covers can be done easily with motor in car.  Unfortunately you have to pull the motor or drop the tranny to access the baffle plate.

 

Good luck.



#16 mikec03

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 04:25 PM

The separator plate leakage is well known problem with the 90's subaru.  Unfortunately, Subaru used a plastic plate instead of a metal one and most will leak.  Of the four 90's subaru's that I have owned over the years, I think that 3 have leaked and the 4'th one may leak in the future.  I have never had one that leaked enough to pull the engine.  The 95 that I have now with 220 k miles, is leaking a lot but not enough so that I have to refill the oil between 3500 mile oil changes.  I'd let it leak unless it approaches 1 qt per 1K miles. 



#17 MilesFox

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:44 PM

I don't know where the idea came from that you should pull the engine out for a timing belt change?  Here is a step by step procedure to replace the timing belt.

1. if you have the capacity, and

2. If you want to do all the seals and the baffle plate.

 

Not saying it is required, but suggesting so if your capacity lends to it.



#18 Leebo

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:05 PM

well i bought this thing and im so excited!  got it for a pretty good deal i think and the guy i bought it from actually has a nice garage with all the tools i need. says he'll give me a hand doing the timing belt job.  the cam seal on the driver side looks pretty grimy so ill probably end up doing both of those.  it doesnt seem to be leaking at the seperator plate so why bother im thinking.  just wanna drive this thing so i can put some time into my EA82. that EJ will be fun to drive after driving my EA82 every day for the past two years! thing feels like a gaddamn race car!  i did notice a little wobble in the crank pully though which i plan on investigating right way.  just makes a little chirp when the ac compressor is on.  should i just try to tighten it down or should i remove it and inspect the woodruff key or can this wait until i change the timing belt.



#19 Leebo

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:05 PM

kinda freaked my self out reading all these posts about wobbly crank shafts.  almost like reading webMD for a head ache and thinking you have a brain tumor type of thing.  hoping its just a worn out pulley or woodruff key and not a jacked up crank shaft.  i dont plan on running it much this way either way. gonna order that timing belt kit and a new crank shaft pulley at the same time just to be safe.



#20 Fairtax4me

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 11:42 PM

It's hard to screw up the end of the crankshaft.
These pulleys don't always run perfectly still, so a bit of wiggle is expected. However, if you have it apart to check timing, its worth it to make sure the crank pulley sits flush against the timing sprocket.

Check the bolt to see if its loose. (Try to loosen it) If it isn't loose don't mess with it.
The inner section can sometimes separate from the outer section and spin. This usually results in the outer section being just a little wobbly, but the inner section still spins straight. But if left too long the outer section will spin off and can go flying or chew up the timing cover. Make a mark with white-out across the two sections, drive somewhere and see if the marks moved.

#21 Leebo

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 05:06 AM

ah this makes me feel better. ill do the white out test and check to make sure the pulley bolt isnt loose.

 

thanks

 

lee



#22 Leebo

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:39 AM

today is the day the new belt goes in.  got torque wrenches, a chain wrench and a pry bar. and we will see how this goes.   HorseLover's write up is awesome! so helpful. hoping things go at least some what smoothly.  having a friend help me so at least i wont be alone in battle. thanks for the help. ill update on how things went.  oh and by the way, even the mechanic in the garage i tend to take headaches to told me to bump the motor to break the crank bolt. seems like every ones doing it! haha



#23 Leebo

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:05 PM

new timing belt installed and idlers, with new water pump and thermostat.  also all new radiator hoses, and drive belts. flushed the cooling system, and changed the rear diff gear oil (which was actually pretty scary how old it looked.) i actually did this work at the guys house who i just bought this car from 2 months ago.  he was refinishing his motorcycle windshield and decided to do my headlights while he was at it. they now look brand new!! so this dude sold me the car for super cheap, let me use his garage and tools, and refinished my headlights! not only do i now have a sweet reliable ride, but also a new friend. the point of this story is Subarus Have Good Karma!


Edited by Leebo, 22 February 2014 - 07:05 PM.


#24 Mohammad

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:29 AM

Hahaha

 

Good twist



#25 Fairtax4me

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:12 PM

That's awesome that he helped you out! Good to hear everything went together and its running. Nothing quote like the feeling of a job well done after a big project.




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