rugbyben Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Okay I need to vent a little bit here. So far from reading threds on this site. (which are very excelent as compared to other car sites, you guys really know your stuff) Anyway back to the point. a lot of people experiance CELs, and this sends your ECU into a fit and changes performance levels to avoid doing more dammage. which makes sense. So this CEL is attached to a sensor for jsut about every problem an engine can have. O2, Knock, MAP/MAF, and god knows what else. But it seems that most of the time the CEL comes on it is because one of these many sensors has failed. So in a effort to make the engine "smarter", they may have over done it by adding a system that requires a lot of maintinence itself. Sure it may be preventing big problems in some cases, but a lot of time you spend money replacing the thing that is suposed to save you money. just sort of funny. Like "catch 22" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSisters Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 The Check Engine Light, MIL, or what ever you want to call it is not there to save you money, help you diagnose problems, or anything for your direct benefit. It’s there because the government mandated it in an effort to keep the environment clean. All the system sensors ‘report” the health of the engine to the ECU and if there is something wrong with engine performance that would add pollution, the CEL illuminates. Like you say, a lot of the time it is a sensor that fails and the CEL lets you know to fix it so the engine will run at peak efficiency/minimal emissions. Other times, the sensors are just doing their job and the MIL lets you know a fuel injector or ignition component, for example, isn’t working and there is an increase in pollution. If you’re young enough to play Rugby, you probably don’t remember points, condensers, and constant tune-ups to keep engines running good. Today’s cars have tons of extra crap but at least they're largely trouble free compared to the olden days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 In the book "Catch 22", a fighter pilot tries to escape from being assigned to a dangerous mission - certain death - by pretending to be insane. A court finds that any attempt to avoid the mission is proof of the man's sanity. Not sure that is parallel to the CEL thing :-) "Catch 22" is more complex than a simple contradiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahDL88 Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 I would compare new and old cars like this, Old cars you had to repair every 3000 miles, and spend very little money, but it would certainly add up quickly New cars you have to repair every 30,000-50,000 miles, if that and it costs a whole bunch basicaly you pay the same, one is on the installment plan and the other is a lump sum. i'd rather go 50,000 miles and pay lump sum than have to check my points, and retune the carby every 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda's 86 Brat Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 And gone are the days when cars had like six wires going to the engine, and only a few problems would make the car not run at all, and the home mechanic can maintain his brand new car with only a small set of tools.. I've never been a huge fan of fuel injection, but it is more efficient than a carburetor (Although I like the original Bosch CIS because it is efficient AND simple..) Whoops.. Just realized Jessica forgot to log out, so this is Andrew talking lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugbyben Posted May 3, 2004 Author Share Posted May 3, 2004 I do understand why they do the sensor thing. And I am not as young as you think. My first car was a 1978 Nova. After cats were required but it was a mechanical distributor and a 4 pumper carb. No need to get all fiesty. I just though it would be fun to bring a little humor to the fact that cars are becoming so complicated it is becoming more and more expensive to keep just the self diognostic systems operating. I understand the concept of a catch 22. if you are sane enough to want to remove yourself from perril, you are not "insane", therefore you can not be removed from service. Those that continue to put themselfs into perril are insane, but since they dont ask they are not removed from service. The EPA requires pollution controll, fine, and autos want to diagnose problems before you are in trouble and avoid heafty repair expenses, i.e. self preservation. So they add a system that requires a lot of expense to keep in operation i.e. adds perril. get it? Have a sense of humor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Robot Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 It?s there because the government mandated it in an effort to keep the environment clean. Interesting. I never knew that this was a government thing (duh!). If they mandated the thing, they should have made the manufacturer build a reader into the dash so you could at least see if something major was going wrong before you took the car in for service. Then again, the Subie CEL goes on and off like a pinball machine compared to the one in my Honda Odyssey which has NEVER lit up. Maybe Subaru needs to use better sensors or maybe the computer is too sensitive to normal fluctuations in the sensors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly_jacek Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Ya, it is a goverment thing. OBD2 system was mandated by a law. Not a bad thing in my book. The lack of codes displayed at the dashbord is probably a combination of cost saving and a purpose. Think how many people would ignore the "emission only" CELs if they were obvious. On the other hand, it is not illegal to have your own code reader... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Robot Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Think how many people would ignore the "emission only" CELs if they were obvious. Like me I'm sure the dealer doesn't mind being able to charge for pulling codes and fixing other stuff that may well take care of itself with a new tank of gas... sorry, my conspiracy theory mentality took over for a minute. Wouldn't it be nice to know whether the CEL that pops on during a road trip is something critical or just another BS knock sensor reading? Should I pull over and call for a pickup or go on my merry way? I am considering picking up a reader just for my own peace of mind so I know that what the mechanic is telling me isn't totally out of line. How many places are going to try to screw you over when you tell 'em you pulled the code and want them to check the... whatever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugbyben Posted May 4, 2004 Author Share Posted May 4, 2004 Thats a great idea. Where can you find one of these readers anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobaroo Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Code readers are cheap now; under a hundred bucks for a basic one. Best investment a person can make. Yep the feds mandate all of this stuff. Cars have gotten MUCH better in the last 30 years, though. How old are you? Do you remember Ford's Variable Venturi or Chrysler's "Lean Burn" carburetors of the '70's?. I'll take todays cars any day over those POS's. God, those were bad years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Robot Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Does reading the code clear it from the computer or do you need buy a reader/monitor that has this specific capability? I'd love a monitoring system, but I don't have a laptop... CEL STATUS- "ON" (after being off for the last two days). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobaroo Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Does reading the code clear it from the computer or do you need buy a reader/monitor that has this specific capability? I'd love a monitoring system, but I don't have a laptop... CEL STATUS- "ON" (after being off for the last two days). A stand-alone code reader is all you need. All of them can clear codes as far as I know. Disconnecting the batery won't work anymore on newer cars since all ECU's now have a backup memory that doesn't depend on the car's battery. If it's an OBD II reader, it will work on all makes of cars, since things were standardized around 1996.More expensive readers can link to PC's and monitor data streams, freeze / record data, etc. All of those features are usually unnecessary, though. Depends on how much you want to spend, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly_jacek Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 If you do not have a laptop you can consider an interface for a palm pilot. If you have a laptop (even an old one), look at http://obddiagnostics.com/ B Roadman is a good sport. His support is well beyound the the expected. When I got his interface and discovered that it would not read the A/F ratio sensor in newer Subs (2000+), he wrote new software which does that (v2.3). Very few generic OBD2 scanners can handle A/F ratio sensor (aka wideband O2 sensor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSisters Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 No need to get all fiesty. Wasn't getting fiesty with you. Just cars, women, government, etc. Know what I mean? You guys are going to love it when you pay an extra $400 on your next car for a tire pressure monitoring system 'cause some Ford Exploder guys didn't know what an air gauge was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugbyben Posted May 5, 2004 Author Share Posted May 5, 2004 HA HA!!! that would suck. I think we need to take more of a Darwinistic approach. Improve the gene pool. Get rid of wet floor signs, knock sensors, and those tags on your hair dryer that say not to use under water!! We are already doing our part here in PA by repealing the helmet law for motorcycles. That should thin out some of the moron population. Okay so we are getting off topic here but its my thread so I dont care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Scoobaroo, Indeed electronic injection is much better than carbs. The only thing i miss is the possibility to ajust for a leaner or richer mixture. Seems it would be electronicaly easy to give us that choice on our cars. Just three seetings: normal, performance and economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Ermm, Frag, surely those options should read: Normal, "Fry-Your-Catalyst", and economy :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 Good point Setright. Then i would settle for «normal» and «economy». Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacy2.5 Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 i agree with seven sisters, check engine light is there to let you know that there is a problem with the vehicle emission system, and has helped vehicles keep running in prime condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene J Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Autozone will hook the scanner to your OBD II port for free! And give you the codes which describe the condition. Screw the dealer! Some charge 125 bucks for this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobaroo Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Autozone will hook the scanner to your OBD II port for free! And give you the codes which describe the condition. Screw the dealer! Some charge 125 bucks for this! This is fine for most conditions. Things get a bit tricky when electrical wiring faults and ground faults start showing up. For example, if Autozone scans your codes and there is a code stored for a throttle position sensor, it doesn't necessarily mean that the sensor is bad. High resistance in grounds and ecectrical connectors can make it appear to the ECU that the sensor is bad when it is in fact ok. Of course, by saving the $125 stealership charge, you can afford to throw a few parts at a problem and hope it cures it and still be money ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.