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Anyone want to install a 22 in a '98, or know a shop who will?


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43 replies to this topic

#26 curls1

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 05:45 PM

It figures that this weekend the temps decide to roll on up to near 50. Definitely could have cranked out the swap outside, ah well.

 

Bummer!!

 

Ivans - they're charging me 9 hours, so $750 labot if everything needs to be swapped.  Less if some stuff is already intact, like timing belt.  Plus parts.

 

Heartless - that's cool.  With my lack of experience, and no place... and no one to show me how to get the leverage right if I hit a snag,  I'm definitely happier having a shop do it.  But I've enjoyed working on my cars... and hearing a pin drop at the table when I start babbling about interference vs. non-interference engines :)  I like fixing things around the house, and cars are included!!  What other jobs have you done?


Edited by curls1, 02 February 2014 - 05:46 PM.


#27 heartless

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:04 PM

have worked on my own cars all my life - since my first - a 1973 Ford Maverick with a 302. :)  I sometimes miss that old car lol

 

leverage is just making the wrench handle longer. I frequently use a 24 inch piece of pipe that will fit over the end of the ratchet wrench to get enough leverage to break a stubborn bolt loose. that and liberal applications of a good penetrating oil like PB Blaster can do wonders.

 

But yeah, if you dont have anyone to help guide you, it can be rather intimidating. That is where places like this can be real helpful - there a bunch of great people here - guys and gals - that are very willing to help out as much as they can short of actually being there. I bought my first Subaru in 2000 - found the USMB shortly thereafter, learned a lot about that car, and have been hanging around ever since. On my third Subaru now.

 

have done a lot of things over the years - from wait tables, to retail sales, to working in a civil engineering office as a drafter. drove semi for 18 years - solo - developed foot problems so couldnt do that anymore, went back to school and just graduated in December at the ripe old age of 50 with an Associates Degree in Accounting and a 3.9 GPA.

Working for a small trucking company now, in the office, putting my schooling to good use. :D



#28 curls1

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:34 PM

Heartless - that's cool.  If it was a spare car, with space to work on it... that'd be different.  But for now, I need transportation that isn't a rental!

 

Apparently the mechanic was closed today with the snow.  The other mechanic with the car was open, and upset that the car is still there.  Hopefully tomorrow it will all start moving forward before Wed's storm, and it will work in the end!



#29 nickb21

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:51 AM

Yea, we got a little snow yesterday, about 10" worth. :)  Roads are clear today though so hopefully things will start moving!

 

Probably not much I can do at this point, but if there is shoot me a PM.. I drive by Clinton and the Broadway place daily on my way to work.



#30 curls1

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 05:44 PM

Thanks Nickb21!!  It would have been great if you could have done the work, made some money.  But timing just doesn't seem to be lining up on this job!  I'll let you know if there's something.  For right now, you're mentioning Broadway was great!!!

 

Hope you're staying safe in all these storms!

 

--- Current saga:

 

Well, didn't make it before Wed's storm.  The mechanic's tow equip wasn't working, and he didn't have a spare guy to get it started.  So he was going to drive by at end of day to see the car's location & snow, and tow it on Thursday.

 

Then the drama began.  I'd deal with a very nice, laid back Robert at Patrick's.  Someone who I think was named Jim, and is probably Mr. Patrick, called furious & yelling and going to charge more.  He threatened that if the other shop didn't come, he'd bury the car so deep in snow, it'd take them 2 days to dig it out.  Then when they called, he wouldn't tell them how much snow it was under.  Both shops were open Wed, but I didn't talk to either, and Broadway wasn't going out towing in the ice.  So Thursday, Patrick's called again yelling and threatening.  This time he was going to put the car on the road and call the state police to take it.  He KNEW the other shop was coming that day.  So what was his point?  In the end I talked him down by saying "I need the car over there too.  I need it fixed so I can go home."  All very true.

 

My point being, that I'd be cautious with Patrick's if this is the manager or owner.  I don't think he's mean, and he did back down (no idea what he's charged my charge card compared to what we originally said... since the car's been there longer due to snow.)  But yikes.  I said he could have towed it over there, and made money from me... but he said he only tows his customers for free and I'm not a customer.  The other guy Robert, was the nicest and very sane.

 

I'm thinking, someone there mumbled something the day before that they bought two 2.5 engines, one for $1500 from Florida.  Yet, they never mentioned it to me officially.  Never offered to fix my car.  I wondered if they weren't hoping to pay me $300 salvage, then turn a profit.  I wouldn't begrudge that if I didn't want the car.  But please wait till the funeral!  So maybe he's just mad that he's stuck with 2.5 engines and I'm keeping the car.

 

The other problem was that I'd called with my charge info, but Mr. Patrick insisted my other mechanic pay him, instead of me, which he explained was so I couldn't do a charge back.  I refused.  Goodness knows what he'd charge the other mechanic that I'd be stuck with.  You don't want a charge back, then you be clear and negotiation your prices to begin with.  And if his charges are within reason, I'm not going to object, even though there wasn't a pre-agreement.

 

I'm just venting, but also in case someone comes by wondering about them... this is worth knowing.

 

---

 

Broadway's has my car's engine out.  There was oil all down it, and curled up onto the bumper.  He said that's the airflow pattern on a wagon with a bad, bad leak.  He's replaced the timing belt and a crank seal or something, and will do that plate that has about 23 names.  He'll know more on Monday.  Job done then or first thing Tuesday.

 

Oh & meanwhile I got a flu with a high fever, so I haven't been online ... or updating.  Now I can see straight again!


Edited by curls1, 08 February 2014 - 05:53 PM.


#31 Olnick

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 08:10 PM

Hang in there, curls.  Following your efforts from afar--wishing and hoping and praying all goes well for you.

 

Good luck.  Aloha,

Nick



#32 grossgary

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 06:28 AM

what a debacle.  the other mechanic pay?  you have really ran into some speed bumps here.  you deserve a cookie for your resolve and good attitude through it all. well done and way to be not letting it dig you!



#33 jarl

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:56 PM

About 4 hrs work intake harness and TB and idle motor has to be swaped over unless is exact year engine

 

Do you mean the '98 intake harness, TB and idle motor from the '98 must be transferred to the EJ22? I may be suffering from a mild form of amnesia (long story), but I don't remember swapping the TB or the harness :blink:



#34 ivans imports

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:15 AM

If using a pre 96 engine you must switch the intake wire harness throttle body and idle motor over from the 2.5 intake onto the 2.2 intake



#35 ThosL

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:20 AM

South St. Auto in Lyndonville, VT did one for me, around $1500 for the engine and installation and a motor with under 70K on it.  F and S in Roxbury CT does installations.  I don't know anyone who is cheap anymore, I once spent $250 for an engine installation motor included around 1990 in VT in winter, the mechanic Ray Greene did it outside!  Legendary.



#36 curls1

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:04 PM

Hi Everyone!!

I have a working car again! As an AWD Subaru, it got it's first test yesterday -- I didn't feel like shoving that nearly bumper high snow pile, and sure enough the car backed right over flattening tire tracks through it.

So Broadway Auto put the '95 2.2 I found at Salvage Auto in Raitain delivered for $395, 98k miles on it -- into my '98 limited outback that came with a 2.5D.

The exhaust matched, & both have EGR. They switched over a couple things. It drives. I miss the 2.5 power not often but a few times, mostly when taking off or merging. I'm used to it, but once I'm used to this, I probably won't notice the difference. It hadn't gone through it's whole check engine cycle by the time they finished, but I drove home 4 hours with no check engine light, so it's probably just fine.

Cost was more than I'd hoped by a little bit. $1200 total mechanic. Probably $2500 with everything included.

-----------------Costs follow
Cost details:
$750 for labor. $50 to two from Patrick's Auto. $210 in parts to fix it up. Tax $78.

They added a job without checking with me first, that they deemed necessary (and probably was) and did it at similar rates to my regular mechanic. So $68 labor & $20 parts to weld a bit of exhaust pipe & weld on heat shield so they'd stop rattling. Plus $13 for a limited slip additive to help loosen up tight at low speed steering, that they said was a Subaru fix for this bearing in transmission problem common on these years. I wasn't having a problem, & it's now a bit off... but maybe I hadn't noticed before.

The parts fixed on the engine before install were: PCV cover plate. Timing belt. Front seal. Intake & exhaust & another gasket. Hose clamps. Oil filter & oil. Drain plug seal. Wire connectors. Coolant 1.5 gal. Radiator plug. They also replaced the thermostat saying it was old. My original was working fine but they didn't switch it over. Only $22 though. I would have preferred the water pump, since thermostat later is a low cost job. Said cam seals were fine.

I was hoping by not doing value cover gasket (which is leaking slightly on this 2.2), and water pump (no seepage), it'd save labor on the $750. I was under the impression it would.
---------Costs

Still I believe they very much did the job in good faith & decent quality. Did a switch over that many places wouldn't know how to. Knew how to do all the parts that other places would have guessed at (he told me, but I don't remember what they were). Didn't overcharge, including on the exhaust job. Put up with the frustrations with Patrick's. The owner Jim, gave me ride to rental car place. He communicated clearly, and obviously enjoys talking about the various aspects of Subarus and car repairs and has a long history of working with them. (He told me stuff I would never have guessed about Subarus.)

I would definitely take my Subaru or other car to Broadway, if I lived near there. If I have a hard to solve problem in the future, I may just schedule a repair stop... along the way of my trip through to NY. He said he used to be a member of BBB, so I suggested he check with them on why they don't come up in a BBB search.

The car smells chemically, but I assume that's stuff they used to repair it, and it will air out pretty quickly.

So I can't thank everyone here enough for all the help!!! There is no way I would have known any of this on my own, or by calling around to shops. :D :D

It was all very pricey. $1200 + $400 engine + $800 in incidentals (rental car, snow plowing where I wound up, car storage, etc.). But the car only had 121k, & it's a nice car. Now it's a running car! It does need brake work. But that's another topic. (And the back ones of squeaked & groaned for years, and no one's ever figured out what's wrong with them.) I haven't checked new gas mileage yet. Seems good so far.

There was oil underneath that'd curled up onto the bumper according to Broadway. I need to bring it for an under carriage cleaning. It was probably that separator plate, had cracked badly during my trip, according to Jim. it's very possible, if it'd brought it in for repair before my trip, it would have been caught and seemed like an expensive repair to drop the engine, but a lot less than this mess!

=====Costs
Costs on incidentals (me venting):
Car rental wound up being $485 after they discounted. But also after they added $95 in some NJ security fee that was on the form but they'd they pretended was something else when I got the car that I wouldn't be paying. So the discounts took about $45 of that off.

In the end with Patrick's:
Patrick's added another $30 to the storage fees from the $150 he was asking for. It broken down on a Thursday. They got it into their shop on Friday & announced it dead. After a day or so, said no 2.5's were to be found, and they wouldn't put in a 2.2. So by the following Thursday I had lined up an engine & other repair shop, Broadway. On Friday they didn't answer their phone. On monday it snowed & he threated to bury it, making it impossible for Broadway to know the situation & get it on Tues. It snowed on Wed. On Thursday Broadway got it. So, while they have a sign up of $30/day for storage, I'd asked up front what they'd charge and got a hand wave (not to worry). I don't think it's fair to ask $180 for "storage" when i was obviously trying to get the car out of there -- it was snowing -- and they were threatening burying it & not answering their phone. ...and did buy the right engine for the car, and just didn't tell me about it. Somehow, this was about taking advantage of my situation, not actual costs or value to them that the car was sitting on their lot (that had plenty of room when I saw it).
====Costs

So that's the saga. What a great group of people here -- and you've all been so incredibly helpful. I especially want to thank Grossgary (who talked to me on the phone, particularly when I was having trouble finding an engine while calling around) and Nick who lives where I got stuck for suggesting Broadway.

And mostly again, all the encouragement was so helpful in the middle of this mess for me. It was emotionally hard to deal with, and very chaotic. So it made a big difference!! Thank you!!

Well, now that I have a working Subaru -- and found these forums -- I'll be around :). Hope everyone has been able to stay safe and warm through all these endless snow storms!!

Edited by curls1, 15 February 2014 - 10:12 PM.


#37 curls1

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 09:08 AM

Ivan Imports

The mechanic said something about moving over the ignition (something), because otherwise the ignition wires on the 2.5 wouldn't fit on the 2.2.  So this way if I ever need to change wires, I can.  Apparently every engine and year, Subaru changed the wire tips.



#38 Rooster2

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 06:01 PM

You now have the same set up that I have...........a 98 OBW Limited with a transplanted 2.2 from 1995. Mine was done about 3 years ago. It is my wife's daily driver. She is happy with the car, and motor has held up beautifully. I notice the 20 less HP, but the 2.2 seems smoother when running, when compared to the 2.5.

 

Hope your transplant works out well.



#39 curls1

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:31 PM

Rooster2

I notice the less HP, but you're right - it also seems smoother when running, which feels good.

 

Cool that our cars had the same operation :).



#40 heartless

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 07:27 AM

Glad to hear you have your car back at last, curls! :clap:

 

Here is hoping you have many more years of use and enjoyment from it! 



#41 grossgary

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:26 PM

great! - you now have one of the best engines Subaru ever made.  it's likely to last another inexpensive 100,000 miles without anything but oil changes and spark plugs/wires.

 

there should be no reason to swap ignition components - normally you just use whatever ignition wires are on the engine: 
2.2 ignition wires

2.2 coil pack

2.2 spark plugs

 

no need to swap anything from the 2.5 on it.  but maybe the engine came without the coil pack or wires so they made do with 2.5 parts rather than charge you for new parts.

 

if you were keeping the car you'd want to make sure you know exactly what ignition wires were used so you can get the right ones in the future.  but since you're not this wont' be a concern for you.

 

you have torque bind, regarding the limited slip additive:

1.  tires should all match in size and close in tread depth

2.  it could have been caused by the towing incident if they didn't tow it properly - it's a 4WD vehicle and can't be towed improperly with two wheels off the ground.

3. the transmission fluid should be flushed or changed a few times to get rid of initial onset of torque bind.



#42 curls1

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:53 AM

Hi Gary,

 

I think he used the 2.2 ignition components.  They didn't force fit anything.  I have to ask him what he did.  He said rather than switch the ends of the wires so they'd fit, he switched the whole harness or switch over.

 

Tires are the same as before, bought together, wearing fine.  A couple go a few pounds low regularly, but I know so I keep them up.

 

Interesting on the towing... I'm sure the Subaru shop knew, but the other took it all of 1 block, but may not have known.  Any chance I can ignore changing the trans fluid for a while without causing more damage?  Shop didn't mention needing a change for that (& I think said trans fluid looked okay).

 

That's great that the engine will likely be solid and last.  Love cars that can keep going and going... 



#43 grossgary

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:06 PM

probably fine. if you notice any torque bind (braking feeling when turning at full lock in a dry pavement/parking lot) - then your 4WD clutches are binding.  the first thing to do is change the fluid - that usually solves the initial onset of it and prevents it from getting worse.  so it all comes down to symptoms:

 

1. is it still having torque bind?
2.  if yes - then have the transmission fluid changed (if the tires are all matching in size)

3.  continuing to run it with torque bind isn't great for the 4WD components and will cause i to get worse.

4.  there's a FWD switch in the engine pay passengers side strut tower, you can install that and drive it as long as you want like that once the weather warms up and no need for 4WD.

5.  let us know if hte FWD switch gets rid of the torque bind.

 

i'd have a tire shop remove, clean, and reseat the tires if you continue to drive the car.  there's corrossion on the rims causing the leak, they're just dirty and need cleaned. 

 

who knows, probably just lost in translation and doesn't matter since none of us did it - but in general there's no ignition/wiring work to do.

you simply install the EJ22 *as-is* and use the ignition wires and coil pack that are on it, that they come with...there's no reason to swap or mix and match ends or anything.  but again, lots of ambiguity if we weren't there or know exactly what he's talking about.   he may not have known the easiest way to swap and swapped the wiring harness or something from the EJ25 to the EJ22 intake manifold - which was unecessary and a lot of work.  again, just a guess, it doesn't make sense.



#44 ivans imports

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:00 AM

Done so many of this covertions






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