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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Some assembly required (struts & springs)


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48 replies to this topic

#26 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:57 AM

yeah, I was kinda wondering if, in the past, someone had put the wrong part on - perhaps from a junkyard?



#27 86BRATMAN

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 01:25 PM

They strut looks right to me, regular legacy would be about an inch shorter from spring perch to knuckle flange. They remind me of how my stock rear struts and springs looked when I got rid of them last summer. One was definitely on the verge of breaking a spring and was compressed about an inch more than the other just free standing. Same one had also puked all of its oil out like that one seems to have done.

#28 heartless

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:34 AM

while I cant say with any certainty that they are or arent the same strut spring combo - if you look at the shorter one closely you can see the lower coil is much more compressed than the other one is. the first complete turn and a half are almost flat it has compressed so much.

 

and to add to that - it was NOT that much different when they were first put on the car. I would have noticed that much of a difference between the two.



#29 lneulicht

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:03 PM

It's a little late for this to be helpful now, but... I bought Mevotech mounts for the rear of my wife's 97 Postal Legacy. The left mount bushing tore loose on the first day and when she got home from the route the strut shaft was banging on the cover plate. The right mount bushing tore loose on the second day. Since I didn't have time to get replacements, I reinstalled the original mounts each night. (The ones that had 420,000 miles on them and were still okay). :angry:  They are still working about 15,000 miles later. What a waste of time that was. 


Edited by lneulicht, 18 February 2014 - 04:03 PM.


#30 heartless

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:25 PM

Never heard of Mevotech so I probably wouldnt order them - I will stick with names I know

 

Rear tophats are new KYB, along with the KYB struts. Front tophats are Monroe, with KYB struts.

Springs are OE all around. :)



#31 Fairtax4me

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:49 PM

I dont think there is supposed to be a bushing in the rear top hats. Pretty sure the OEs that I've dealt with are solid. The KYBs I put on the rear of my 95 were definitely solid.

I have seen Mevo-tech parts and wondered if they were any good. I suppose one particular part out of the possibly hundreds of different parts that they probably make isnt enough to say the brand overall is junk, but certainly something to keep in mind.

#32 heartless

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:53 AM

my KYB rears are definitely solid as well. The dont need to rotate like the fronts do. The ones I took off the car are solid, too - no bushings - and those were OE as far as I can tell.

 

I probably could have reused the old rear tophats, but i didnt feel like having to take things apart and then put them back together again with the car sitting on jack stands - much easier, and faster, to do the entire assembly in one shot - old out, new in, done.

 

We had both rear strut assemblies installed, and the car back on the ground, in a couple of hours with typical home garage tools & taking frequent breaks to thaw the cold fingers. Hardest part was getting the bottom end of the strut & the knuckle lined up to get the bolts started thru.

 

Was a little off on the orientation of the one, had to clamp the tophat in the vise and try to twist the strut a little to get it into better alignment...it did not want to turn easily with the new rubbers, either...a piece of 1/2 inch solid steel bar thru the lower mounting holes gave enough leverage to get it to twist just enough, tho.

 

now, if those darn spacers/washers would hurry up and get here, I can get the fronts done as well...hoping that they will resolve the unpredictablity of the front end...it likes to wander a bit if one tire has more resistance (snow on the road) than the other, and has a little bit of a catch when turning...was told the ball joints and tie rod ends were in good condition when the alignment was done, but the front tophats were pretty worn...



#33 lneulicht

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:30 AM

I realized the fronts were worn one time when I lifted the front end to do some work and bearing balls ran out onto the garage floor. I had changed the struts some time before without changing the mounts



#34 Gloyale

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:40 AM

while I cant say with any certainty that they are or arent the same strut spring combo - if you look at the shorter one closely you can see the lower coil is much more compressed than the other one is. the first complete turn and a half are almost flat it has compressed so much.

 

and to add to that - it was NOT that much different when they were first put on the car. I would have noticed that much of a difference between the two.

 

Those are not the same part.

 

Both of them are extendended to their full length......there is no weight on them..

 

Your thinking of the equation the opposite way.   The only "compression"  comes from being trapped between 2 ends of the strut.  One of the struts has a longer rod, so it can extend further creating a larger space between top/bottom for the spring to live in. 

 

The other one, the space is not shorter because of the spring being compressed, the shorter one the spring looks more compressed becasue it's squeezed into a shorter space. 

 

Those are NOT the same struts.....one or both of them is not original to the car.

 

Want to prove it?  pull the springs off and compare the extended lengths of each one from top of rod to bottom of strut.

 

 

You didn't notice it on the car because the length from knuckle to spring is close, and when the car sits on the springs, it settled to nearly the same place.

What you would have noticed is that when you jack the car up, the one side would drop further down than the other.

 

I think what you have is one Strut for a Legacy sedan, and another for a Wagon.  Same length from spring perch to knuckle, but the Sedan one has longer inner rod, more travel by about 3/4"


Edited by Gloyale, 19 February 2014 - 11:45 AM.


#35 heartless

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 08:14 PM

Those are NOT the same struts.....one or both of them is not original to the car.

 

Want to prove it?  pull the springs off and compare the extended lengths of each one from top of rod to bottom of strut.

 


 

I will be happy to take them apart this weekend.


Both strut assemblies are from the 98 Forester that is sitting on blocks in my driveway. When they were taken off of the Forester they were the same length - I took them off.



 



#36 heartless

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:13 AM

ok, so I went out to the garage yesterday to plug in our skidsteer and noticed something kind of interesting about the old struts...

 

the day we took them off the car it was in the 20s F temp wise - had been in the single digits and low teens for the week previous... we then had a couple of nice warm days - upper 30s to maybe 40...it has since gotten cold again, but that is beside the point...

 

anyway - the strut that was so much shorter has become longer over the last week with no weight on it, just lying on the floor of the garage...

 

1969378_10201669502328516_479522397_n.jp

 

The shorter one is on the left - still not 100 percent the same, but much closer than it was when it was taken off the car - and yes, those are the exact same struts pictured earlier. no trickery, no BS.



#37 Fairtax4me

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:19 AM

Its growing!!! :lol:

Did you try leaning on the top to see how easy it is to compress the spring? (Good for a laugh when you see how worn out the spring is)
If you pull up on it it'll probably extend the rest of the way.

#38 heartless

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:26 AM

Its growing!!! :lol:

Did you try leaning on the top to see how easy it is to compress the spring? (Good for a laugh when you see how worn out the spring is)
If you pull up on it it'll probably extend the rest of the way.

 

LOL - no, I didnt try leaning on it - it is pretty dirty and nasty, and I had halfway good clothes on at the time. I am sure it would compress pretty easily tho. I just thought it was interesting that it "grew" with no weight on it - betting the couple of warm days we had recently had something to do with it  - I had noticed that the ride was much worse with colder weather - the warmer it was outside, the better it rode.



#39 Gloyale

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:12 PM


 


Both strut assemblies are from the 98 Forester that is sitting on blocks in my driveway. When they were taken off of the Forester they were the same length - I took them off.
 

 

So.... you took them off the car and then the one got shorter and then magically got longer again?  I don't think so.  They are fully extended.....period.....there is nothing but the connected top and bottom of the strut to keep it compressed. 

 

The spring would have to be loose and flopping around between the perches to not be fully extended.

 

 

Take the tops and springs off and you will see these are 2 different length strut rods.



#40 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:17 PM

was there a Sorcerer or some magic beans and a cow involved somehow?

riddle - what happens if Pinocchio says; "My nose will grow now!"

#41 heartless

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:30 PM

So.... you took them off the car and then the one got shorter and then magically got longer again?  I don't think so.  They are fully extended.....period.....there is nothing but the connected top and bottom of the strut to keep it compressed. 

 

The spring would have to be loose and flopping around between the perches to not be fully extended.

 

 

Take the tops and springs off and you will see these are 2 different length strut rods.

 

 

was there a Sorcerer or some magic beans and a cow involved somehow?

riddle - what happens if Pinocchio says; "My nose will grow now!"

 

So how about you two stop beating around the bush and just flippin say what you are thinking? You think I am a liar.

 

Well, I'm not - but I learned long ago that there are going to be those that will believe whatever they want to believe, regardless of what others say or do.

 

At this point it wouldnt matter if you were standing right next to me watching me take the stupid things apart to "prove" to you they are the same, you would still think I am a liar - so...

 

Good Day, Sir - I am now finished with this conversation.



#42 Fairtax4me

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:49 PM

So.... you took them off the car and then the one got shorter and then magically got longer again? I don't think so. They are fully extended.....period.....there is nothing but the connected top and bottom of the strut to keep it compressed.

The spring would have to be loose and flopping around between the perches to not be fully extended.


Take the tops and springs off and you will see these are 2 different length strut rods.


Is it really that hard to believe that the spring is just so worn out that it won't extend any further than that? You can see how rusted out the bottom coil is in the pics. It's not a different strut, its just worn out.

#43 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:59 PM

uh - just messing around chief. Nothing personal.

I see no reason there couldn't be some corrosion or flaky plating or even a bend in the strut rod making it 'give way' a little and move.

there's supposed to be some nitrogen gas in there and even a rise in temps could increase the gas pressure or free-up some gummy oil or something.

#44 86BRATMAN

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:24 PM

I guess these guys just have a hard time believing, I don't since I've seen it first had myself not that long ago. Dead strut and weak old spring, hell years ago I used a set of 1.5" lowering springs and new struts on a 98 legacy L that effectively raised the rear half an inch because the 200k mile oem suspension was absolute garbage.

#45 madkow007

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:22 PM

was there a Sorcerer or some magic beans and a cow involved somehow?

 

 

Yes there was a kow involved...a MADKOW...lol

anyway, I was there when they came off the forester and went on the legacy and then came off the legacy and

thats what they looked like when they came off the legacy. We both thought sh*t, would you look at that.

It was much warmer when they came off the forester and we saw the one was leaking some, but this was just for temp till we could get new ones for it.

By the time we the tranny issues worked out and got them on the legacy it had turned cold and needless to say, it's still cold...high of 0F coming up

here in a couple days.

What was I talking about? Oh ya struts...the part #'s on the ones that came off the forester and went on the leg and then came off

the leg are 71410 and 71411. If anyone wants to look up what they are suppose to go on...go for it...who knows...maybe they came

off a 360 and got put on the forester...lol

She just took pics of them because she thought others would like to see them. 

If you look at the springs, the one thats leaking, the top part of the spring is wore down from where the the metal had been rubbing against it's self

making it much flatter, so who knows how long the forester was driven this way. The forester never ran while we had it, so we have know idea how it rode.

Suby on people



#46 Gloyale

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 12:59 PM

So how about you two stop beating around the bush and just flippin say what you are thinking? You think I am a liar.

 

Well, I'm not - but I learned long ago that there are going to be those that will believe whatever they want to believe, regardless of what others say or do.

 

At this point it wouldnt matter if you were standing right next to me watching me take the stupid things apart to "prove" to you they are the same, you would still think I am a liar - so...

 

Good Day, Sir - I am now finished with this conversation.

 

I don't think you are a liar at all.  I just thought something was being overlooked or missed.

 

I do apologize if this thread has caused ill will of any kind.  Sometimes I over-obsess about things.

 

I've been thinking about it and there is one possible way that those could be a matched set of struts......if the internals of the bad one are hammered to the point that washers and seals are loose inside......that could prevent the strut rod from extending all the way out.

 

I still say it can't be JUST from a "compressed" worn out spring.......like I said unless it's flopping loose it's pushing the strut rod out....but if the strut is damaged it could be "stuck" in a not quite fully extended position.

 

I certainly wouldn't dream of calling a long time board friend and
neighbor (used to live in WI when I joined the board)  A liar. 
Never.....I know you aren't on here to start flame wars with ricers lol.

 

Whatever is going on, I am happy your suby is better now.  I'm sorry to cause frustration I just kinda get fixated.

 

Gotta watch Judge Wappner.........Definately time for Judge Wappner.



#47 lneulicht

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:23 PM

If I follow your conceptual process...I have pulled struts that are so deteriorated that they move freely, allowing a spring to find its length with no resistance whatsoever. If the spring was permanently compressed (bent) the strut would be shorter



#48 Gloyale

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:27 PM

If the spring was permanently compressed (bent) the strut would be shorter

 

Then you would be able to grab the top of the strut and pull it apart further.  And the spring would flop around loose between the seats.



#49 heartless

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:18 AM

I don't think you are a liar at all.  I just thought something was being overlooked or missed.

 

I do apologize if this thread has caused ill will of any kind.  Sometimes I over-obsess about things.

 

I've been thinking about it and there is one possible way that those could be a matched set of struts......if the internals of the bad one are hammered to the point that washers and seals are loose inside......that could prevent the strut rod from extending all the way out.

 

I still say it can't be JUST from a "compressed" worn out spring.......like I said unless it's flopping loose it's pushing the strut rod out....but if the strut is damaged it could be "stuck" in a not quite fully extended position.

 

I certainly wouldn't dream of calling a long time board friend and
neighbor (used to live in WI when I joined the board)  A liar. 
Never.....I know you aren't on here to start flame wars with ricers lol.

 

Whatever is going on, I am happy your suby is better now.  I'm sorry to cause frustration I just kinda get fixated.

 

Gotta watch Judge Wappner.........Definately time for Judge Wappner.

 

Apology accepted.

 

and just to clarify things a little...

 

when the struts came off the 98 Forester, they both "looked" fine, aside from a little bit of oil leaking on the one. As madkow007 said, they were a temp fix for the broken springs & bad struts that were on the Legacy when we got it.

 

The Forester struts were then installed on the 95 Legacy, and I have been driving the car for several months with them on.

 

During that time the ride got progressively worse, to the point that it was almost unsafe it was bouncing around so much. And temperature seemed to have a lot to do with it - the colder it was, the worse it rode. And it has been unusually cold this year - week after week of sub-zero temps.

 

When we pulled them out from under the Legacy, the first pics I posted of them is what they looked like - temp was barely in the 20s that day.

 

A couple days later it warmed up to nearly 40 for 2 days in a row. it was after that brief warm spell that I noticed the one had extended itself - whatever had been frozen up inside had thawed out.

 

In summary - yes, the internals of the one strut are completely shot, the spring was taking the entire weight of the car on that corner, and the all bumps, potholes, etc., and is pretty worn out as well, as evidenced by the rusted coils at the bottom where they were rubbing against each other. Again, I am VERY glad I decided to go all new.

 

Additionally, if you look up the numbers posted by madkow, taken from the struts, you will find that they are both for Monroe OE Specturm struts, fitting 1998-2002 Subaru Forester - one left rear, one right rear.

 

My spacers for the fronts arrived Saturday - hoping to get those asembled and installed soon.






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