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New member, new Subie...4th times a charm?

cold idle

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#1 TheWanderer

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 06:06 AM

Hey guys, just purchased an all original 93k mile 88 Leone DL for $400, running and driving (still need to pick it up yet...) :) Nearest I can tell is I'm the 3rd owner. Now, I gotta say, I'm a complete noob when it comes to these older Subies, but from what my research beforehand says, this car should be one helluva workhorse as an A-B car.  I've had other Scoobs in the past (2 :Legos and an SVX in under a year >_< ) that kind of soured me to the idea of owning a Subaru again, so I'm hoping this little EA82 can change my mind.  It is an auto, fuel injected model from what I was told by the previous owner.  Realistically I don't expect much from this other than a reliable utilitarian vehicle that gets decent gas mileage.  I know its not going to be a hot rod by any means, I just need something to get me around in the meantime til I can get another vehicle (dare I say, another Volvo 850 wagon 5 cyl :P *dons flame suit* )

 

So overall the car is in top shape.  Exterior and mechanically it is pretty mint (the interior is shredded from a prior owner and his dogs).  The last owner did a lot of work to it and took excellent care, and it has had a lot of new parts recently installed (alternator, starter, tires all around, water pump, etc).  However the only issue with the car is a cold idle problem.  My research has led me to believe that this is a common issue?  If so, can anyone give me some ideas as to what the common fix is?  I'm no slouch when it comes to working on cars, and plan to start with the basics (fuel filter, plugs, wires, cap/rotor, IAC/TPS, etc).  But rather than throw parts at it and see what sticks...you see where I'm going I'm sure...

 

Any help you guys can offer is much appreciated :)  And if anyone is curious, here is the Craigslist Ad for the car in question that I bought :)


Edited by TheWanderer, 16 February 2014 - 06:10 AM.


#2 suprjohn

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 09:39 AM

Cool! A fellow Cornhusker!

 

I'm a Soob Noob, and I'm currently thinking up the mate to your car! Mine's an '89 DL wagon, same color and everything!

 

Not sure what the cold idle issue might be; Mike runs pretty well with 260K on the clock. Someone here will have the answer I'll wager. 

 

Welcome!

 

John



#3 TheWanderer

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 09:44 AM

Cool! A fellow Cornhusker!

 

I'm a Soob Noob, and I'm currently thinking up the mate to your car! Mine's an '89 DL wagon, same color and everything!

 

Not sure what the cold idle issue might be; Mike runs pretty well with 260K on the clock. Someone here will have the answer I'll wager. 

 

Welcome!

 

John

Fellow Cornhusker indeed (although far from being a flatlander, originally from PA)! Fellow NP'er as well ;)  I'm over off of Rodeo Rd lol...  I'd hazard a guess I've probably seen ya running around town, not a whole lot of these "vintage" Subies left, especially around here :P

 

I have my suspicions as to what may be causing it, and I've done a lot of searching between forums and other sites, but no one seems to have a clear answer as to what is the usual culprit :stumped:  I have to go pick her up in Cozad yet, trying to get the timing and the finances squared away and find a ride out...hopefully next weekend though :D


Edited by TheWanderer, 16 February 2014 - 09:50 AM.


#4 Scooner

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:38 AM

Nice buy, I'm over here in Cheyenne so kinds close? Ha. Anyways I'm not 100% sure with this style EA but the problem might lie in the coolant temp sensor. I had a 87' with the same problem and I changed out the sensor and and it changed its idle alot. I'm pretty sure the sensor tells the ecu what temp the engine is at so that it can adjust the fuel mixture? It's been quite awhile since I messed with it, the other problem I had was someone had adjusted everything else BEFORE changing the sensor so timing was off among other things. Give it a shot, I think the sensor was only $20 and is mounted in the coolant tube on the back passenger side under the intake.

#5 TheWanderer

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:03 AM

More info :) Got the VIN...Still can't find an absolute answer though as to whether this is an EA81 or EA82 (everything I've found online points mostly to it being an 82, since it is a 3rd gen...)

 

JF1AG42B0JC803824 is the vin.  Tried decoding the vin through 2 different sites, and neither of them gives me a whole lot of reliable info (one says this is a 1.6l and the other says its a 1.8 sohc...)  AFAIK it was originally a Colorado car and I am the 3rd owner (with the last owner having been from CO then moving to Nebraska)


Edited by TheWanderer, 16 February 2014 - 11:04 AM.


#6 ruparts

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 12:06 PM

More info :) Got the VIN...Still can't find an absolute answer though as to whether this is an EA81 or EA82 (everything I've found online points mostly to it being an 82, since it is a 3rd gen...)

 

JF1AG42B0JC803824 is the vin.  Tried decoding the vin through 2 different sites, and neither of them gives me a whole lot of reliable info (one says this is a 1.6l and the other says its a 1.8 sohc...)  AFAIK it was originally a Colorado car and I am the 3rd owner (with the last owner having been from CO then moving to Nebraska)

 

 hi,

 your car is an ea82,  we refer to them that way because there is an overlap on year models with engines and body styles.. ea81 refers to the 80-84 body style and have pushrod (ohv) style motors.  the overlap comes because the continued with this in the brats, through 87 ,  and hatchbacks through 89.   your COUPE 3dr , has a overhead cam (ohc) motor and has timing belts , those early motors do not.  you will see ea82 on the top front of you engine near the oil stick.   as for the coolent temp sensor, , yes  they are a common problem for these, but many times it's only the connection, not the actual sensor,  if you find a lot of corrosion on and in the connector try cleaning it all up first ,  there is a spec for the sensor but i don't know the cold value to check it . at least it's available, also look close for any loose or split vacuum hoses , and anything hose related going to the intake system.  there are 2 little solinoids that are mounted on the intake manifold they are a metal cube with small hoses to them and a 2 wire connector on each,, the little hose nipples break off real easy , and that creates small vacuum leaks in the system.    those and or the sensor is likely to help with the problem.   the thing on top of the thermostat housing is the idle air control and is sometimes faulty but cracked hoses and air leaks are most often the issue.



#7 TheWanderer

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 01:48 PM

 hi,

 your car is an ea82,  we refer to them that way because there is an overlap on year models with engines and body styles.. ea81 refers to the 80-84 body style and have pushrod (ohv) style motors.  the overlap comes because the continued with this in the brats, through 87 ,  and hatchbacks through 89.   your COUPE 3dr , has a overhead cam (ohc) motor and has timing belts , those early motors do not.  you will see ea82 on the top front of you engine near the oil stick.   as for the coolent temp sensor, , yes  they are a common problem for these, but many times it's only the connection, not the actual sensor,  if you find a lot of corrosion on and in the connector try cleaning it all up first ,  there is a spec for the sensor but i don't know the cold value to check it . at least it's available, also look close for any loose or split vacuum hoses , and anything hose related going to the intake system.  there are 2 little solinoids that are mounted on the intake manifold they are a metal cube with small hoses to them and a 2 wire connector on each,, the little hose nipples break off real easy , and that creates small vacuum leaks in the system.    those and or the sensor is likely to help with the problem.   the thing on top of the thermostat housing is the idle air control and is sometimes faulty but cracked hoses and air leaks are most often the issue.

 

Thanks ruparts! Much appreciated!  One last question I have that I'd like to confirm, this is going to be the SPI fuel injected EA82 correct?  The gal that is selling me the car did say it was fuel injected and not carb'd, and from what I gather being the lowest trim level, its most likely the SPI and not the MPFI.  If that is the case, it is very similar to GM's TBI setup I assume?  Only reason I ask is I have some experience with the TBI setup from when I owned my 88 Fiero...


Edited by TheWanderer, 16 February 2014 - 01:48 PM.


#8 ruparts

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:45 PM

hi,

  yes , spfi,  the mpfi is only on the turbo motors unless it was a xt, they all have the mpfi i think.  there was a mpfi option in 85 for all the body styles if it was a gl-10 or something maybe gl but after 86 all fi was spfi on everything except turbo option engines, they all are mpfi,  and xt.  



#9 suprjohn

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 06:39 PM

I knew someone would have some ideas. :-)

 

I haven't got to drive mine much yet, as I'm in the middle of rebuilding the HVAC system. I did get some wiring done as it was a little warmer this weekend. 

 

I'm still suspecting some vacuum leaks on mine, as the 4X4 does not engage, nor does the heater work. Idle is still a little rough, so as soon as I get the HVAC system sorted, I'll have to address those issues. 

 

John



#10 TheWanderer

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:53 AM

Thanks again Ru :)  I had a suspicion that was the case, mpfi for turbo cars only

 

Johh, sorry to hear lol.  Although with this cold we've had I can't blame ya for not wanting to freeze while driving it :P

 

Can't wait to get this car and get her goin right :D  Eventually once I get my cash out of her and get enough saved up for another brick, I'd like to consider doing a swap on this...Throw in a D/R auto with the turbo 1.8 and beef up the suspension...I used to go to a lot of rally races back east and would like to build a 000 course opening car with this DL



#11 Ziginox

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 01:39 AM

Not sure if the SPFI engines have this, but there is a hose that goes to the PCV attached to the bottom of the intake boot, it comes off easily when opening the filter box and causes some real issues. Also, as for swapping in an EA82T, don't. If you're going to go through the hassle, just drop in an EJ engine. It will have more power stock, plus the EJ engines have a much greater potential for modification. Reliability will also be much enhanced. That being said, the EA82T isn't terrible and completely unreliable, but the EJ engines are much better.



#12 TheWanderer

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:16 AM

Not sure if the SPFI engines have this, but there is a hose that goes to the PCV attached to the bottom of the intake boot, it comes off easily when opening the filter box and causes some real issues. Also, as for swapping in an EA82T, don't. If you're going to go through the hassle, just drop in an EJ engine. It will have more power stock, plus the EJ engines have a much greater potential for modification. Reliability will also be much enhanced. That being said, the EA82T isn't terrible and completely unreliable, but the EJ engines are much better.

 

 

My experience with the EJ motors has left me quite sour on that swap idea...Although from what I have seen if I were to do that I would probably be best to go with the 2.2 for reliability.  Not sure if its physically possible, but has anyone succesfully transplanted an EG33 paired to a 4.44 auto into one of these DL's?  That would be my absolute first choice for any swap other than the EA82T, simply because I love that motor and know it is very well balanced and bulletproof...Not the cheapest swap by any means I'm sure, but I have friends in the SVX community that have a handful of motors laying around and have done supercharged/turbo builds on them...



#13 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:08 AM

To fit a six cylinder engine on a Body designed for four cylinder EA engine is pretty Bad idea... I had a wagon with the 2.7L ER27 engine from the Subaru XT6, and beside that there isn't room enough for the Radiator, the added extra weight to the front, compromises seriously the handling and braking power... overall bad idea for sure. EJ swap is the better idea, or enjoy the underpowered EA82 with its great reliability.

 

 

...suspecting some vacuum leaks on mine, as the 4X4 does not engage, nor does the heater work...

 
Yes, vacuum leaks...

Check the vacuum accumulator bottle, which is located in the engine bay, behind the passenger's strut tower, under the windshield.

 

Kind Regards.



#14 TheWanderer

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:56 AM

Never hurts to ask :D lol...although, I did find a video of an 87 GL that someone converted to an Eaton M90 supercharged mid engine EG33 that looks like a LOT of fun to drive :D

 

Does anyone happen to have a part number for the correct NGK plug wires for this application?  There are 3 different ones listed, the FE22, FE25, and the FE27.   Also wondering if anyone has the proper part numbers for fuel filter(s) and air filter (the SPFI is a panel filter correct?)  And last (but certainly not least), would this be the NipponDenso ignition or the Hitachi ignition system (distributor)?  Gettng ready to order my tune up parts, and need to know what distributor cap and rotor to get :)


Edited by TheWanderer, 17 February 2014 - 10:04 AM.


#15 TheWanderer

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:18 PM

Woot, picking her up Friday morning :D

 

Got some more info from the gal that owns/owned it. Tons of new parts she put on in the past year including a new alternator, new battery, 4 new tires (Oct 13), plugs/wires/cap/rotor. and a few other things that my cell phone decided to delete the text message about >_< I asked about the timing belt/water pump and she does not think her mechanic had done it in the past, however is in contact with him and is finding out for me.  So I will be putting that on the list of things to do in the short term just in case.  She also said that she believes the fuel filters were replaced last May, but I will be double checking them and replacing them anyhow most likely.

 

This is non interference correct?  Meaning if the timing belt(s) break I don't have to worry about valves bending?  Most SOHC motors from this era (like the 1.9l ford escort, etc) I've dealt with are like this, just curious if the EA82 follows the same trend...

 

CTS has yet to be replaced, so I suspect that may very well be the culprit for the cold idle problem.  Going to seafoam the car first thing before I drive it home, then change the oil immediately when I get back (its about a 50 mile drive home, perfect time to do it).


Edited by TheWanderer, 17 February 2014 - 04:19 PM.


#16 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 07:05 PM

...This is non interference correct?  Meaning if the timing belt(s) break I don't have to worry about valves bending? ...

 

Yes, the EA82 is a Non-interference Engine.

 

Kind Regards.



#17 suprjohn

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 07:17 PM

I did the timing belts on mine; not too bad of a job except for that at some point someone had stripped the threads on one of the bolt holes for the idler gear and had helio coiled it. Had to have a custom bolt made for the idler gear, but seems tho work well. Not sure if this is an interference engine; someone here will know. 

 

If you're doing the timing belts, it's a good time tho do the water pump; the belt covers have to be removed to replace the WP. Water pump failure was one of the reasons mine was parked in a tree row. 

 

John



#18 TheWanderer

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:02 AM

Thanks guys :) Can't wait to go pick her up :D 2 more shifts at work and counting lol

So can anyone provide me info on proper part numbers then for some of the tune up items, in case I end up needing to do them again in short order? List of what I'd like to pick up is below :)

NGK V power plugs?
NGK Plug wires?
Distributor cap/rotor? (Is this the Hitachi or NipponDenso setup?)
Fuel filter?
Air filter?
Coolant Temp Sensor?
Water Pump?
Timing Belt kit?
PCV valve?
Oil filter (Bosch preferred)?


Edited by TheWanderer, 19 February 2014 - 11:05 AM.


#19 TheWanderer

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:56 PM

bump for part numbers :)



#20 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:15 PM

In order to see if your subie has the Nippon Denso or the Hitachi distribuitor, you must provide us with Photos; but however if your subie is Carburated EA82, then the 2WD (FWD) models came with the Nippon Denso, and the 4WD (AWD) models came with the Hitachi.

 

...
NGK V power plugs?

...
Oil filter ...?

...

 

These EA82 engines doesn't like expensive Sparkplugs, they work the same with the Stock ones, and there is a version with grooved electrode; part number: NGK BPR6EY11.

 

About Oil Filter, there are three sizes that fits the EA82, the "official" one is Medium sized Purolator L-24457, then comes a larger one which is the Purolator L-20064, and the Shorter one, which is the Purolator L-10028; I've been using the last two ones without issues since many, many years ago, but I do preffer the smaller one for faster pumping on cold starts, plus a li'l gain in oil pressure... these engines doesn't need expensive oil filters, just good quality ones.

 

See: ~► http://www.ultimates...ands/?p=1145764

 

Kind Regards.

► Edited to add the web link.


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 21 February 2014 - 12:22 AM.


#21 suprjohn

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:53 PM

Are you getting the car tomorrow?  :banana: :banana: :banana:

 

John



#22 TheWanderer

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:55 PM

Thanks for the info :)

 

The V power plugs are standard copper plugs with a groove.  I dont run platinum in any of my cars, not too convinced by all that hype lol. 

This is a fwd SPFI car.  I'll throw some photos up tomorrow after I get back from picking up the car.  As for oil filters I am quite partial to the OBosch mileage plus or the Purolator PureOne filters.  I will cross reference the numbers you provided with their part numbers to see what filter to use.

 

How about part numbers for the rest of the items (particularly fuel filter, PCV valve, and air filter)?

 

John,

 

Heading up to get it in T-8 hours ;) cant wait! lol


Edited by TheWanderer, 20 February 2014 - 11:56 PM.


#23 suprjohn

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 12:16 AM

Awesome! I'm with you on the Purolator filters. Ordered the air filter from rock auto. Advance didn't have one. 

 

John



#24 TheWanderer

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:53 AM

Picked her up about an hour and a half ago.  She's certainly in rougher shape than I expected :/  Its definitely not a highway worthy car as it sits.  When I fired it up I had to floor the gas to get her to run until she warmed up, and it still stalled out 5-6 times.  She shakes like a tank in the front end above ~35 mph and has at least one wheel bearing in the front starting to grind/howl.  Suspect it needs motor and tranny mounts.  There is a vaccuum leak right behind the alternator, sounds like its coming from under the intake.  Pulls hard to the right when I'm on the gas and wanders a bit.  Needs brake work (either they need bled or I need a new booster, it wont hold vaccuum and I have to pump them 3-4 times to get a good pedal feel).  The tail lights are busted up something fierce (one has a hole in it) and need replaced.  Drivers side mirror has the glass duct taped in.  She blew a lot of oil smoke from around the bell housing when I first got her fired up, and kept on doing it for a good 5 min or so, suspect its the main seal gasket.  Also has a crack in the windshield running across the bottom below the wiper arms.

 

If the front end didnt shake like a tank, she'd ride really nice.  At low speeds the ride is excellent, she runs out nice once she's warm, and does alright considering.  With some of the maintenance items its going to need, coupled with some major repairs, I'm looking probably another $500 into it to get it running and highway worthy.

 

Edit:  Oh, and the speedo doesn't work properly nor does the dome light...speedo only reads to 35 mph and doesn't start reading until I hit about 25-30.  Suspect the cluster needs replaced...And the dome light wont turn off from what I'm told.  And don't even get me started on the driver door window, it rolls down but needs some help.  I suspect the crank handle needs replaced (stripped out and wont bite the crank)


Edited by TheWanderer, 21 February 2014 - 12:03 PM.


#25 Gloyale

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 12:19 PM

I knew someone would have some ideas. :-)

 

I haven't got to drive mine much yet, as I'm in the middle of rebuilding the HVAC system. I did get some wiring done as it was a little warmer this weekend. 

 

I'm still suspecting some vacuum leaks on mine, as the 4X4 does not engage, nor does the heater work. Idle is still a little rough, so as soon as I get the HVAC system sorted, I'll have to address those issues. 

 

John

 

The line from the engine to the vacuum canister is disconnected.

 

That vac canister supplies vacuum to operate the 4wd, and the HVAC controls.






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