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No Fuel, No Spark


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23 replies to this topic

#1 bratlife

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:02 PM

Sorry to start a new post when I know there is a bunch of info on here about this kind of stuff, but I just couldn't find anything for this exact situation. I'll try to keep it short.

 

I'm not getting power to the fuel pump, and therefore no fuel.

No spark if I hold a plug to metal either.

 

I have new wires and power on both sides of coil, BUT a tester light does NOT pulse when cranking engine. Does this mean the coil is bad? Could this mean something else? 

 

Thanks a bunch for any help. This issue is making me  :banghead:



#2 bratlife

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:03 PM

Sorry forgot to add: 85 brat, EA81, Weber, and a ton of miles



#3 naru

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:04 PM

What car?



#4 naru

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:06 PM

Sorry to start a new post when I know there is a bunch of info on here about this kind of stuff, but I just couldn't find anything for this exact situation. I'll try to keep it short.

 

I'm not getting power to the fuel pump, and therefore no fuel.

No spark if I hold a plug to metal either.

 

I have new wires and power on both sides of coil, BUT a tester light does NOT pulse when cranking engine. Does this mean the coil is bad? Could this mean something else? 

 

Thanks a bunch for any help. This issue is making me  :banghead:

 

No fuel is normal if there are no ignition pulses.

Does the light stay lit on coil negative?



#5 bratlife

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:12 PM

Both sides I the coil stay lit when cranking. What's that mean? Sorry I just don't know enough about these to know what that tells me.

#6 bratlife

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:31 PM

I don't have a multi-meter with me either to test both sides of the coil. (that, along with most my other tools are in my wrecked truck that is having the frame pulled out right now). Not having the best luck with my automobiles lately. 

 

So if the coil does NOT pulse when cranking, does that mean the coil is bad? or is it not grounding out in the distributer? 

 

I could buy a new hitachi coil for $40 to try it, but I can't return it then if it's not the problem. I could get a cheapo for $22. But again, I don't mind spending that either way if its really the problem. Is there a way to test all this without buying a new one? 

 

Thanks again. I just don't know where to go from here. 


Edited by bratlife, 28 February 2014 - 07:51 PM.


#7 naru

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:43 PM

If the light is lit but not pulsing on coil negative,that means the disty is not grounding the coil like it should.

Probably a bad ignition module.



#8 kayoteq

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:50 PM

How do you test the module? Similar problems, and I'm on my third module. 

 

Could the distributor itself (mechanical) have a failure?


Edited by kayoteq, 01 March 2014 - 10:51 PM.


#9 bertmann73

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:05 AM

i would check the wires to the disty first for any loose connections. your fuel pump usually runs only when the engine is running and the alternator is providing current for it. you should have one hot wire and one that finds its way to the coil. test both with a circuit tester to see if yo have power. if you do then you will probably need to change the module. if not you have a bad connection or fuse. check also for any ground wires from the chassis to the engine and make sure its grounded good. thats all i have until i get a brain fart later. good luck.



#10 bertmann73

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:08 AM

I don't have a multi-meter with me either to test both sides of the coil. (that, along with most my other tools are in my wrecked truck that is having the frame pulled out right now). Not having the best luck with my automobiles lately. 

 

So if the coil does NOT pulse when cranking, does that mean the coil is bad? or is it not grounding out in the distributer? 

 

I could buy a new hitachi coil for $40 to try it, but I can't return it then if it's not the problem. I could get a cheapo for $22. But again, I don't mind spending that either way if its really the problem. Is there a way to test all this without buying a new one? 

 

Thanks again. I just don't know where to go from here. 

a light bulb and an alligator clip is all i ever use to test circuits.



#11 naru

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:32 AM

How do you test the module? Similar problems, and I'm on my third module. 

 

Could the distributor itself (mechanical) have a failure?

 

Test light like the OP used is probably best for the Hitachis.Verify the disty harness continuity too.

Diode test function of a multimeter is useful too.Look for opens or shorts.

 

Not much to fail inside the disty to prevent spark. except the module.

They seem to still spark with worn shaft bushings and cracked magnets.

 

IME,module failures are almost always related to a failure in the secondary ignition system.Bad/loose plug/coil wires,open rotors.etc.

Seen some go out from voltage regulator failure.I`d check for AC voltage coming from the alt.

Wrong coil is a possibility too.



#12 kayoteq

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 07:41 AM

Thanks. I hope this helps everybody, of course. mysteriously, there's at least 3 of us on here with the same issues right now and something we're all missing.

 

.  I am of suspicion of the Black/white wire (the one going from the dist module, to the coil, and around the motor a couple of places) grounding somewhere in the wire harness  between the motor and the firewall/dash plug.

 

Elsewhere on the car..

 

I repaired a corroded lead on an unused plug in the floor below the passenger. When I was done, I sealed the ends with a strip of electrical tape. It's possible those redundant plugs were shorting their 12v onto the chassis.  Replaced two of them, both corroded. So, given the right conditions, those leads will melt themselves off into green goo. Well, not like that, but they certainly become fragile.

 

 

 

 

One Idea, if I still can't get that BW grounding resolved, is to isolate the old one run a new BW circuit. Test wires at first.


Edited by kayoteq, 02 March 2014 - 07:42 AM.


#13 naru

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 09:25 AM

Put a voltmeter on the B/W.It is a trivial matter to see if it is grounded.

 

IIRC,you have an aftermarket coil.

Since you have possibly had 3 module failures,I`d be very suspicious of the coil.



#14 kayoteq

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:15 PM

Hopefully this saves some steps, Bratlife. I'm gonna find it.

 

Naru,

 

The grounding exists on just the wire. Not hooked up to the coil. The ground goes away when I unplug the yellow plug under the dash.  No 'flickering' when I jiggle the wire harness. So it's on the cabin-rear side of the firewall.

What I have found, so far, is corroded wires under the seat, back passenger side (the gas wire is on driver side behind the panel)

 

Two wires bad behind the gas door (access panel passenger rear)

My alternator went nuts right before this, maybe it burnt a couple of leads.

 

 

 

 



#15 Gloyale

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:29 PM

Guys.....

 

The black white wire to the coil is the 12v+ supply.

 

The yellow wire is the Tach signal.

 

If you are grounding the Black white wire that is a problem.



#16 naru

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:25 PM

Hopefully this saves some steps, Bratlife. I'm gonna find it.

 

Naru,

 

The grounding exists on just the wire. Not hooked up to the coil. The ground goes away when I unplug the yellow plug under the dash.  No 'flickering' when I jiggle the wire harness. So it's on the cabin-rear side of the firewall.

What I have found, so far, is corroded wires under the seat, back passenger side (the gas wire is on driver side behind the panel)

 

Two wires bad behind the gas door (access panel passenger rear)

My alternator went nuts right before this, maybe it burnt a couple of leads.

 

I don`t know what the yellow connector is,but,if the test light remains lit on coil negative w/o pulsing the B/W wire is not the problem.

Nutty alternator, you say? Fried module,I say.



#17 kayoteq

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:04 PM

The 'yellow plug' is one of the main multi-wire (18?)  harness connectors behind the fuse box, going into the firewall. The ground is in the inside/cabin wiring as far as I can tell.  Should I be calling it a short to avoid confusion with --<< ground



#18 bratlife

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:46 PM

Wow. Thanks everybody for all the info. Kayoteq, sorry to hear that you feel my pain. 

 

Problem is that most people think its the ignition module, and sounds like that should definitely be it, considering the symptoms.

 

I have replaced: plugs, wires, fuel pump, AND IGNITION MODULE. and still NO spark and NO fuel. I'm waiting for a new coil to be at the parts store this afternoon and I guess I'll try that next.

 

I've checked all my wires and everything. I'm getting power where I should. If a new coil doesn't work, I'm just going to have to get it towed to SSI and let Rick do his magic. 



#19 Cougar

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:00 PM

Make sure fuse 5 is good and has power to it.



#20 bratlife

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:10 PM

All my fuses in the fuse box and fuse-able links (that I know of) are all good. Are there others out of the ordinary that I should be looking for?

 

Thanks a bunch for your, and everybody's insight. Let me know if I'm missing a fuse or something that I might not know about. 



#21 naru

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 04:48 PM

All my fuses in the fuse box and fuse-able links (that I know of) are all good. Are there others out of the ordinary that I should be looking for?

 

Thanks a bunch for your, and everybody's insight. Let me know if I'm missing a fuse or something that I might not know about. 

 

If the test light comes on(on coil -)all the fuses you need to worry about are good.Coil primary winding too.

Only other thing preventing the light from pulsing is the module or disty harness.



#22 bratlife

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:22 PM

GOT IT!!!  Thanks everybody. This one was really getting pretty frustrating.  :banghead:

 

After new fuel pump, wires, plugs and ignition module, I was still without spark and fuel.

 

Put in a new coil and ran a new wire from negative coil to dist just in case, even though the whole thing looked fine. That gave me fuel and spark! Then just a matter of cranking till I was back in action! So it's hard to say what it was since I changed the coil and negative wire at the same time, but the wire looked fine with good connections, so I'm thinking it was actually the coil. Either way, now I have a new everything so I should be set for a while. Now I just need to have the motor rebuilt.  :(



#23 Cougar

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 02:54 PM

It was the pickup inside the disty. You proved the coil was okay. Now you will see a pulsing light on the negative side of the coil if you put a test light on it as the module inside the disty grounds the circuit and turns off the lamp, and that action fires the coil. 



#24 kayoteq

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:54 PM

Coolness!

Hmm.. I may have to try that. I've tried everything else and I've been looking sourly at that coil- to dist wire all this time, but not till I check out the rest of my wiring. Mine, I'm afraid is not as simple, it seems.






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