Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Heresy! Replaced NGK Platinum w/Champion Copper Plugs


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#26 friendly_jacek

friendly_jacek

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 644 posts
  • USA

Posted 19 May 2004 - 08:46 AM

The crankshaft sensor fired coil pack type ignitions common on almost all new cars fire the two cylinders opposite each other in firing order at the same moment. One gets a spark when needed at roughly top dead center compression stroke, The other cylinder gets a spark that has no effect at roughly top dead center on the exhaust stroke.


Ya, it is a cost saving measure; but many cars have a separate coil per each plug...

#27 WRX Love

WRX Love

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Columbus

Posted 21 May 2004 - 11:10 PM

legacy 2.5, modern vehicles do in fact require a plug of the correct heat range just as vehicles 30 years ago did, the difference is the addition of the "copper core" to spark plug technology who's contribution yields a broader effective heat-range by way of copper's thermal (sinking & releasing) properties. Essentially copper-core plugs are less prone to overheating on mountain grades and less prone to fouling around town.

I agree with your comment about the Champions, in fact it's almost universal that NGK's trump Champions, but why? I've finally dug-up some technical info that supports and explains what it is that everyone has been subjectively feeling:

http://www.lubedev.c...es/flameout.htm


All I want to say is than you VERY much for sharing that information (URL) with us.

#28 blitz

blitz

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,091 posts
  • Warren, Michigan

Posted 22 May 2004 - 09:22 AM

Blitz: The article you cite, although interesting, doesn't mention Champions as "bad" plugs; it only mentions NGKs as "good" plugs. Therefore, it does not support your proposition that NGK plugs are superior to Champions (they may be, but the article doesn't say so or allow someone to conclude so).

Nothing said so far explains why two of the NGK platinum plugs I pulled after 44,500 mi appear severely worn or why the car's power and throttle response improved dramatically after replacing the NGK platinum plugs.

My argument is not that Champion is superior to NGK or vice versa, only that I suspect that platinum plugs don't last as long as claimed and that if changed frequently inexpensive copper plugs may outperform overpriced platinum plugs.


Did we read the same article? :)

Here's my summation:

The authors spark-plug "quest" began as a result of a misfire in a new Neon (Champions). His findings were that the added resistance in many resistor type plugs (including the factory-installed plugs in his Neon) is deemed too high for good ignition and tended to cause misfires under certain conditions. He then measured the resistance of all the popular plugs and found NGK to be the lowest.

Agreeably, there are other things that can affect spark plug performance like electrode dimensions, electrode material, and manufacturing defects as a result of crappy QC, but the article doesn't dwell on those issues.

#29 swami2806

swami2806

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 30 posts
  • Colchester CT

Posted 23 May 2004 - 08:07 AM

Wow! Lookes like my knowledge of ignitions are a bit dated! Ya learn something new every day.

#30 Tiny Clark

Tiny Clark

    Certified Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 807 posts
  • Germany

Posted 24 May 2004 - 12:39 AM

Reverse Polarity Spark? Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore...

I really have a hard time swallowing this one, as a matter of fact I can't even force myself to sniff at the bait!

Until they come up with a camera that can stop action the spark right in the middle of it's path, I'm not buying it.

#31 avk

avk

    My Outback is bigger than yours

  • Members
  • 958 posts
  • Somerset County, NJ

Posted 24 May 2004 - 08:10 AM

You already bought it, with the car! "Reverse" and "direct" are relative terms, anyway.

#32 blitz

blitz

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,091 posts
  • Warren, Michigan

Posted 24 May 2004 - 10:41 AM

Reverse Polarity Spark? Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore...

I really have a hard time swallowing this one, as a matter of fact I can't even force myself to sniff at the bait!

Until they come up with a camera that can stop action the spark right in the middle of it's path, I'm not buying it.


Tiny, Shadow explains it best. The front coil is firing the front two plugs (left side & right side) simultaneously in a SERIES circuit, which would make the polarity of left plug opposite that of the right plug. This means that the coil must develop enough voltage to ionize two .040 gaps in series (essentially .080 worth of gap) as well as overcome the resistance of both plugs (and wires) in series all at the same time.

But why series? Balance. If the pair of plugs were connected in parallel off of the coil secondary, one plug would always ionize and spark first, depriving the other of spark. In series, both plugs receive equally the full current developed by the coil after inonization is achieved.

Electrons move from negative to positive (from cathode to anode) and will transfer a small amount of metal in the same direction (from the cathode to the anode), so on one side of the engine, the metal is being transferred OFF OF the center electrode (cathode) and on the other side it's being transferred ONTO the center electrode (anode).

Not sure if I made things more confusing. :-\

#33 Tiny Clark

Tiny Clark

    Certified Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 807 posts
  • Germany

Posted 25 May 2004 - 02:16 AM

avk, I bought into it only as an innocent bystander.

Blitz (and all others), OK, OK, I understand all this theory mumbo jumbo (unfortunately, I make a living at trying to fix crap that engineers dream up) about the series circuit and anodes and cathodes, and lions and tigers and bears, Oh My!

Me thinks it would work in parallel as well due to decreased resistance of the plug gap on the combustion stroke, but I have to bow out to the pocket protector & RPG/BCG wearing geeks on this one.

But remember, these are the same guys that put the parking light switch on the steering column and the drink holder in the perfect spot next to the climate controls and above the radio, supported slightly enough to bounce around a can of Coke so that it will completely disperse its carbonation in a few short minutes.

Better break the microscope out to see the deposits tho, at least on mine. I just changed my regular old AC copper plugs out after almost 30,000 miles and didn't see any NOTICEABLE difference in them. Anyway, and theoretically of course, if the deposits go from one side to the other, then the build-up and tear-down should result in the gap staying the same. :brow:

However, the extra acceleration and power I didn't feel with the new "platinum quad-spark dilithium crystal super high output beryllium coated superconductor center core plugs" I installed really put the hurt my neck during the test drive, and my gas mileage went from about 25.220 mpg to 25.255 mpg...

Satirically yours, Tiny




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users