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GL won't start after girlfriend added too much oil...


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56 replies to this topic

#26 silverback

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:11 PM

You saw the alternator belt(s) move. Insert gong noise here.

 

Remove distributor cap, ground coil high tension lead,  observe rotor while cranking.

 

Remove the covers of the timing belts.

 

Oil pressure during cranking???    Zero???


Edited by silverback, 02 April 2014 - 06:14 PM.


#27 l75eya

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:12 PM

To me, it sounds like the timing is off. Do you smell fuel? Do you have a way to check the timing?

#28 Malcontent

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:25 PM

You saw the alternator belt(s) move. Insert gong noise here.

 

Remove distributor cap, ground coil high tension lead,  observe rotor while cranking.

 

Remove the covers of the timing belts.

 

Oil pressure during cranking???    Zero???

 

I already admitted to being a certified noob.

The oil pressure when I crank it is indeed zero.

I will need to read up on how to locate and remove the covers of the timing belts.

What am I looking for whilst observing the rotor while cranking?

I greatly appreciate your help.



#29 Malcontent

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:26 PM

To me, it sounds like the timing is off. Do you smell fuel? Do you have a way to check the timing?

 

I do not smell fuel.
I do not currently have a way to check the timing.



#30 silverback

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:35 PM

When you crank the engine, the rotor in the distributor will rotate. It the timing belt is gone -- no movement.

Having zero oil pressure  could mean broken timing belt on the passenger side.

 

The belts that you see from the drivers position are for the alternater, water pump and optional AC. They do not have any function for cam shaft driving or the oil pump.

 

The bolts that hold the black plastic covers over the timing belts are a pain. I threw mine away. Most of us do.  I think you need a 10mm socket and 3/8 drive ratchet. Working room is tight.  A good vocabulary helps (soob mojo).

 

 

If the timing belts are broken...............what does this mean??????????????????/

It means your girlfriend is off the hook this time.................


Edited by silverback, 02 April 2014 - 06:40 PM.


#31 Malcontent

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 06:44 PM

When you crank the engine, the rotor in the distributor will rotate. It the timing belt is gone -- no movement.

Having zero oil pressure  could mean broken timing belt on the passenger side.

 

The belts that you see from the drivers position are for the alternater, water pump and optional AC. They do not have any function for cam shaft driving or the oil pump.

 

The bolts that hold the black plastic covers over the timing belts are a pain. I threw mine away. Most of us do.  I think you need a 10mm socket and 3/8 drive ratchet. Working room is tight.  A good vocabulary helps (soob mojo).

 

 

If the timing belts are broken...............what does this mean??????????????????/

It means your girlfriend is off the hook this time.................

 

 

....this time.

 

It would have been very coincidental that the belt breaks the moment she added too much oil...because she did indeed add too much oil. Plus, she had JUST driven it three blocks from work and everything was fine. But alas...you are correct sir. I shall check my TIMING BELTS when I have a bit more time. I.E. this weekend.


Edited by Malcontent, 02 April 2014 - 06:47 PM.


#32 silverback

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:11 PM

Here is a drawing of the front of an EA82. You can see the alternator/water pump 'V belts'. The outboard timing covers are removed and you can partially see the 'flat, cogged, timing belts'. You have 2........or you used to have 2 and or parts thereof. There are small rubber covers on the inspection holes. One can pry the covers out and peek inside to see if the belts are damaged. I think your belts are gone.

 

Print several copies of the image; one for looking, one for spilling beverages onto, three for getting dirty when you do your own belts.

 

There are several notations on the drawing; 45', timing mark, camshaft sprocket position and flywheel position. You will figure them out in a couple days. If your girlfriend has small hands, she may be able to help you and gain 'timing belt cover removal zen'. Vocabulary required.

Attached File  IMG.jpg   214.48K   27 downloads



#33 Malcontent

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:40 PM

Here is a drawing of the front of an EA82. You can see the alternator/water pump 'V belts'. The outboard timing covers are removed and you can partially see the 'flat, cogged, timing belts'. You have 2........or you used to have 2 and or parts thereof. There are small rubber covers on the inspection holes. One can pry the covers out and peek inside to see if the belts are damaged. I think your belts are gone.

 

Print several copies of the image; one for looking, one for spilling beverages onto, three for getting dirty when you do your own belts.

 

There are several notations on the drawing; 45', timing mark, camshaft sprocket position and flywheel position. You will figure them out in a couple days. If your girlfriend has small hands, she may be able to help you and gain 'timing belt cover removal zen'. Vocabulary required.

attachicon.gifIMG.jpg

 

 

You sir are a scholar and a gentleman. I thank you for your time and patience. 5 stars for you.

I will keep you updated.



#34 l75eya

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:15 PM

Good luck and keep asking as many questions as you need. We're here to help get you and your car back on the road.
Ps: the rotor mentioned before that spins, its located under the distributor cap that all the spark plug wires connect to. The cap is either screwed on or has a clip holding it down. If you remove it you'll see the rotor. That spins when you crank the engine. If it doesn't, something is wrong.

#35 MilesFox

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:49 PM

Wow, this thread lit up since i commented this morning. After reading more, let's rule out the hydrolock issue.

 

I speculate a timing or compression issue based on your whirring noises. If it were a timing issue, only, you still have compression.

 

Troubleshoot 1. Inspect the rotor. make sure the screw hasn't fallen out, resulting in erratic mis-timing. If the screw is present, crank the motor with the cap off, and observe the rotor turning. If not. You have a broken timing belt. If it does turn, go to step 2.

 

Troubleshoot 2. Inspect the timing belt for correct timing. It is possible that the belt could have skipped timing by A. the tensioner is loose or has a failed bearing, B. some of the teeth stripped off a portion of the belt, leaving the belt intact, but not engaged with the crank. Observe the rotation of the rotor while cranking. See if it stops momentarily between revolutions. This would indicate stripped teeth on the belt, although there is enough to turn it. Firther inspect the timing belt by removing the outer covers. Observe the timing marks. Presuming you know the timing marks (which i will illustrate in the next paragraph), you will be able to determine if the belt is off time. You will see if the tensioner is loose. If so, realign the marks and tighten the tensioner, or replace the tensioner. If the tensioner had not failed, remove the belt and inspect for stripped teeth.

 

The distributor will remain in time with the cam, so if you do the timing belt alignment correctly, the distributor time will be correct.

 

Remove the rubber plug(if it is not missing) from the bellhousing under the pitch bar mount. Use a 22mm or 7/8" socket or offset box wrench to turn the crank untill you see 3 marks III, and line the middle mark to the arrow on top of the hole. Rotate the passenger side cam so the dot is facing up, in line with the notch on the timing cover, which also is in line with the valve cover seam 12 o'clock. This is the step where you install the passenger side belt. Otherwise, since the belt is intact, rotate the crank another 360 degrees until you get the III mark again. The passenger cam cam will be facing down 6 o'clock. From here, you will rotate the driver side cam to 12 o'clock. This is where you will install or adjust the timing belt. At this point you are done with the Timing Belt Procedure.

 

I would speculate that in your case, the teeth are stripped or the tensioner failed. The catching feeling you get is the passenger side cylinders between compression strokes, and there is no compression on the driver side, so you get that whee, chug chug wee chug chug sound. The cam is off enough that a valve is open on the compression stroke, by either being off time, or not moving at all.

 

In regard to Sea Foam, i was suggesting this to clean out oil in the intake if a hydrolock thru the pcv had occurred. Otherwise, you can apply sea-foam as a routine maintenance to clean the idle control valve and blow out carbon from the valves and pistons, ad to oil before drain, or add to fuel as a cleaner.



#36 wagonist

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:18 PM

Word of warning re the timing belts.

 

the bolts the hold the 2 covers together have a tendency for the insert in the back one to simply spin inside the plastic, and hence not undo.

And hence the need for a good vocabulary :P

 

Be prepared to either break them out of the rear covers, or grind the bolt heads off so the covers will come off.

 

Even better, see if you can get some replacement rear covers from the wrecker (with intact inserts) as spares, and then use cable ties to hold them back on instead of the bolts.



#37 MilesFox

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:26 PM

Give the girl props for at least considering the car should have oil in it. the over filled oil and the timing is likely a coincidence.



#38 silverback

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:33 PM

Wagonist, most of us( West Coast ) throw the covers away.  Air flows to the block for better cooling. We can do timing belts in 20 minutes or less. A shop in Seattle will charge more than $500, do bad work with poor parts. We go off road. Lately I have been packing my undercarriage, CAT, etc with snow. Oh, sorry, you are in Australia. Google snow.  I worry very little about the belts. It is the cheap bearings in the tensioners spitting the grease out.

In conclusion, throw away the covers.



#39 TallonX

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 04:40 PM

Mine makes the same noise from the starter, cheap, weak battery in my case. Your soundin a bit low on juice as well from that sound clip.

#40 silverback

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:18 PM

Malcontent. When you get around to your Subaru, disconnect and remove the battery. Remove the alternator. You will have a lot more working room. Not worth fighting the belts.

#41 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:22 PM

 

Mine makes the same noise from the starter, cheap, weak battery in my case. Your soundin a bit low on juice as well from that sound clip.

 

+1 

 

 

If the motor had a ton of blow-by from the overfill, it could have fouled the o2 sensor too. I doubt that would cause a sudden no start tho.

 

Was it blowing smoke after the overfill?

How long did you run it after overfilling?

Are there any ecu codes present?



#42 TallonX

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 06:46 PM

I seen the question asked but I didn't see the answer, fuel infected or is the beasty carb'd?

#43 Malcontent

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:12 PM

 

 

+1 

 

 

If the motor had a ton of blow-by from the overfill, it could have fouled the o2 sensor too. I doubt that would cause a sudden no start tho.

 

Was it blowing smoke after the overfill?

How long did you run it after overfilling?

Are there any ecu codes present?

 

It didn't start after she added the oil. She drove it for three blocks parked it for 45 minutes. Added the oil and then tried to start it. It didn't.

No codes present.



#44 Malcontent

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:12 PM

I seen the question asked but I didn't see the answer, fuel infected or is the beasty carb'd?

 

 

Carb



#45 Malcontent

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:13 PM

Malcontent. When you get around to your Subaru, disconnect and remove the battery. Remove the alternator. You will have a lot more working room. Not worth fighting the belts.

 

Aye Captain.



#46 TallonX

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:25 PM

Mines a 1987 carb'd as well, I think it's likely that something stupid happened coincidentally.

Pop the top of the air filter, open the butterfly for the choke dribble a Lil fuel down her gullet n see what happens, not a lot table spoon worth more or less and give her a roll, don't try and force it by hitting the gas just let her roll, if she burps or fires to life, fuel pump is the winner, smack it up a bit see if it frees up

#47 TallonX

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:25 PM

Mines a 1987 carb'd as well, I think it's likely that something stupid happened coincidentally.

Pop the top of the air filter, open the butterfly for the choke dribble a Lil fuel down her gullet n see what happens, not a lot table spoon worth more or less and give her a roll, don't try and force it by hitting the gas just let her roll, if she burps or fires to life, fuel pump is the winner, smack it up a bit see if it frees up

#48 TallonX

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:26 PM

Sorry for the double post WiFi freaks out sometimes

#49 Silas Cruse

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 08:11 AM

here is how i fix my 1991 ea82 a few years ago:

 

Turns out that the single fuel injector was STUCK and i used a large handled screw driver as a soft mallet to free it, no joke.

soft TAP, soft TAP, soft TAP.

 

this was after i verified that both the feed and return fuel lines had pressure, 35# i think.

Weirdest fuel prob i have ever seen.

Since then i only run Chevron techron, and keep my fingers crossed.



#50 jono

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 04:54 PM

Wagonist, most of us( West Coast ) ............................. with snow. Oh, sorry, you are in Australia. Google snow. 

 

Googled snow for you wagonist and found this

 

http://www.ausubaru....&highlight=snow

 

:)


Edited by jono, 04 April 2014 - 04:55 PM.





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