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1990 Loyale engine problem


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17 replies to this topic

#1 nichzimmerman

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 04:38 PM

Hi, new guy here. I was happily driving my Loyale down the highway when the engine just quit. no stumble or misfiring, just completely quit, and it wont even think about starting. so far I have checked the fuel pressure just after the fuel filter, checked that all plugs were getting a spark, and checked compression. so far all is normal except the compression on the left two cylinders (from the drivers seat) are 80 - 90 psi. I figured a head gasket problem, but would that cause the engine to quit like that? what else should I look at? thanks. nic

#2 jono

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 05:06 PM

Not criticial of you or anyone else but...starting to think it would help the OP's with diagnostics if posts were set out a bit like this >>

 

Hi, new guy here. I was happily driving my Loyale down the highway when
the engine just quit. no stumble or misfiring, just completely quit,

 


it wont even think about starting. it cranks at normal speed?

so far I have checked the fuel
pressure just after the fuel filter,

looks same as any random fuel pressure inspection done when car has been running fine?

you can tell us if it is carb, spfi or mpfi ? fi neds about 36 psi , not just low pressure delivery

so have you tried a momentary spray start assist fuel replacement in air tract ?

checked that all plugs were getting a spark,

checked compression. so far all is normal except the
compression on the left two cylinders (from the drivers seat) are 80 - 90 psi

that 'd be cyls 2 and 4, dizzy side ? how much in normal cylinders ?
 

I figured a head gasket problem,

why ?

but would that cause the engine
to quit like that? what else should I look at? thanks.

nic


Edited by jono, 13 April 2014 - 05:06 PM.


#3 l75eya

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 05:07 PM

check timing belts.



#4 Dee2

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 05:37 PM

check timing belts.

+1



#5 nichzimmerman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 07:30 AM

Thanks for the help guys. I wish I could provide friendlier editing but I'm using a smartphone and it defaults to a single paragraph when I post. I did not have time to take the center cover of this morning but I took the left and right off. both belts were still attached but the driver side belt had damage. see the attached picture. could something like this cause the belt to jump a tooth and throw off the timing? These belts were replaced 40,000 miles ago does this mean I probably need to replace some of the gears? ive never worked with timing belts before. This is an SPF I engine and my Haynes manual says 17 to 24 psi is normal. mine was 24. the compression on the good cylinders was 165 and the Haynes manual suggested low compression on 2 cylinders of the same side is indicative of a head gasket leak and there's oil on the bottom side of those cylinders. that's all that went into my diagnosis. Thanks again for the help!

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#6 Subruise

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:26 AM

you likely have shot bearings on the timing components and/or water pump. sometimes they dont get replaced with the belts



#7 l75eya

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:05 AM

Get a timing belt kit. Includes new pulleys. Search for milesfox's art of Subaru maintenance videos on YouTube. Very clearly illustrates the whole belt replacement procedure. Even though you definitely need to replace those belts, if you for sh. And giggles want to verify, if you remove your distributer cap and watch the rotor underneath while you crank the engine, it should turn. If it doesn't, drivers side belt is screwed. You know it is already though.

#8 Gloyale

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:14 AM

the compression on the good cylinders was 165 and the Haynes manual suggested low compression on 2 cylinders of the same side is indicative of a head gasket leak and there's oil on the bottom side of those cylinders. that's all that went into my diagnosis. Thanks again for the help!

 

That's a kinduv general thought on headgaskets that applies to most old Iron engines....but not so much to subarus.

 

On a Subaru....low compression on one bank of cylinders is ussually always a timing issue.....valves open wrong time= weak/no compression.

 

It on;y makes sense....since you see the one thing that pairs a set of cylinders on a side is the CAM. 



#9 nichzimmerman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:36 PM

I see a large variety of timing belt kits for sale...the only thing they have in common is they each come with two belts. advance auto sells a kit that includes belts, idler pulley, tensioners, and seals for the crank, cams, and balance shaft. anything else I should be replacing while I am in there? thanks.

#10 Dee2

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 01:03 PM

"...anything else I should be replacing while I am in there?"

 

Water pump, if it hasn't been done in a while.



#11 rdweninger

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:36 PM

Beware of the remanufactured water pumps.  I have heard a lot of failure stories.   I like the new japanese brands.    I put in an Aisain 5 years ago... no problems with it.



#12 MilesFox

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:13 PM

YOu get spark and fuel pressure because the belt is still turning the distributor which sends the spark and fuel signal to the ecu, although since half your belt fell apart, i'm sure it is a few teeth off if not more, being out  of time.

 

Ineresting belt failure pics. I have only seen the snap cleanly, shear off some teeth while the belt is intact, or unravel into a 50 ft long ball of wire.

 

Def. do the water pump while in there. avoud chan stores and stick to smething like napa and go with an aisin brand mfg'd new or napa's alltrom brand for oem supply (made in japan)



#13 nichzimmerman

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 06:23 AM

Update: the driver side timing belt had bad wear on the side facing the engine and lots of belt fibers were inside the cover. I found that the oil pump sprocket (seee pic of part and diagram) had lost the inside ring which apparently keeps the belt on the sprocket. The ring had cracked, come off, got mangled up, then started eating away at the belt. Im relieved to figure out why my belt failed so soon, but I cant seem to find a replacement part anywhere online. Is this the sort of thing a dealer can get for me or where else can I look? Thanks.

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#14 ruparts

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 11:04 AM

hi,

  that guide ring is pressed onto the drive gear, it is not available as a replacement part.  the oil pump has one on both sides of the gear if i remember correctly.    you should be able to replace the drive gear with one from another  pump if you can locate one. 

  i would suggest you replace all the timing tensioners and idler because it seems like your belt had been rubbing this shoulder ring which indicates that something is misalligned and causing the belt to run toward that side.  anyway  a new timing set and drive gear for the pump should get you going.   check the bolt hole for the idler gear sometimes that hole is wallowed and lets the idler tilt and shift the belt, tensioners wear and tilt slightly, same issue belt runs offline.



#15 l75eya

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 12:38 PM

I'm pretty sure I have a used oil pump laying around. It was replaced because of a Tick of Death on my Loyale. If you'd like, I can mail it to you and you can use it for parts. PM me if you're interested.



#16 briankk

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 01:10 PM

+1

+ another one...



#17 nichzimmerman

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 06:58 AM

This group has been extremely helpful through my first timing belt change. Yet another update: everything is back together and the engine started and ran, but not quite like it should. The starters speed seemed to oscillate as if I had a couple spark plugs missing, and the engine had a lot of vibration at idle. It largely went away at higher rpm but it clearly isn't running quite right. I double checked the timing belt and all the marks lined up as they should. I followed the procedure in the haynes manual, which is the same as in the YouTube video series (line up all marks, rotate crank 360 deg between belt installs). I tested compression on the two cylinders that were previously in the 80s and they are now both in the 150s. What to do? Oh, and about 1/4 cup blackish water dripped out the exhaust during and after I ran the engine.

#18 Dee2

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 08:38 PM

check through the discussion on this thread - sounds similar

 

http://www.ultimates...anging-t-belts/


Edited by Dee2, 24 April 2014 - 08:40 PM.





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