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Rear axle Irritation


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27 replies to this topic

#1 AKghandi

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:24 AM

so i put a new rear axle in my 2" lifted wagon along with a welded diff.

 

not long after i realize the diff doesn't seem welded any more.

 

i go to take it out and its not the diff its the axle i replaced

 

the inner DOJ had separated, the axle turns independently of the cup.

 

 

the other axle has a doj on both ends where as the new on doesn't it has a doj on one end and a cv on the other.

 

so the axle gets pulled out of the DOJ

 

 

so i replaced it again with a reman from oriellys and the next day the same thing happens.

 

 

My thought is to take 2 axles and make one with DOJ on both ends but would that work?



#2 grossgary

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 03:38 AM

I've heard of people wanting DOJ style for that reason and i think they've converted them as you said.  try a search if no one pipes up.



#3 ruparts

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:09 AM

hi,

 i have collected a few rear axles and noticed there are some with double slip type joints and some with a fixed outer joint.  went to the fsm and they mention that the range of travel is greater by using double slip type joints,  they also mention the actual shaft (between the joints) is a different length, but not by much and i don't have the numbers on hand.  i know others will say the shafts are the same but the fsm and the my tape rule disagree. 

 bottom line is i think if a person used the "longest shafts"  (and that might be the ones with a single fixed joint, i cannot tell you for sure) ,,  but using the longest center shafts and put on   2 slip type joints you would have a better setup for lifted vehicles.  there is a company i've seen mentioned on this board, mme or mwe, anyway they are said to do a lot of subaru axles and even custom setups, so they might have the answers and parts you need.  btw my xt6 rears have the 2 doj's and i think they are larger beefier joints too, but fit the same spline axles and stubs.



#4 Gloyale

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 12:05 PM

First Gen Legacy rear axles use an inner DOJ with a deeper cup...about 10~12mm longer......

 

You can swap those cups onto the axles with the CV at the outer to make a it a bit more "stretchy".

 

But whatever you do make sure you have your Up and Down travel under control.  Uptravel is generally not an issue with EA82 since the coilover effectively limits uptravel even after a lift.  (ea81s will stuff all the way up with lift hyperextend under compression. Gotta add bumpstomps)

 

With the deeper cups, I would check that the shaft doesn't hit the lip of the cup at full drop. 


Edited by Gloyale, 15 April 2014 - 12:10 PM.


#5 AKghandi

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 02:51 PM

hmm so it looks like im on the hunt for an original subaru axle with DOJ on both ends.

 

 

my up travel isnt much but my down travel is quite a bit at full droop its like i have a 4". thanks to the 4runner struts.

but the other side which still has the double doj's hasnt had an issue.

 

i knew i should have rebooted the original one.



#6 two85s

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:37 PM

I thought I'd add a question here.  I noticed a torn boot on passenger side rear axle and the driver side boots are looking worn too.  These are the original axles, how would you guys recomend replacing or repairing them? 

 

I want to do the same to both axles at the same time. 

Also, when doing this should I get new wheel bearings, seal(s) for differential, or any other tasks (or parts bought) that should be done while I have the items taken apart?  Thanks for the help.  Aaron



#7 two85s

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 12:48 AM

Bump.. whats best repair-rehab rear axle boots (if so what parts to order/ rock auto okay?) or replace the axles with remanufactured ones?  Thanks



#8 AKghandi

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 01:45 AM

if you want the DOJ on both ends look up the axle for an 85 sohc gl or 85 ea82.

 

the reman i got works great.

 

oreillys pn#

 

http://www.oreillyau... !s! axle shaft


Edited by AKghandi, 30 June 2014 - 01:48 AM.


#9 two85s

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:14 PM

Hey AKghandi thanks for the help.  There are mixed opinions about rebulding original axles versus buying new/ remanufactured ones.  Thanks again, Aaron



#10 grossgary

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:03 AM

here's a more factual way to view this issue, rather than "opinion".

 

1. reboot the original axles with Subaru boots for a nearly 100% success rate. 

2. buy good, used Subaru axles and reboot them. nearly 100% success rate again if you buy smart: i routinely get them for $25-$33 each www.car-part.com

3. buy FWE axles if you want one already done.  $100 per axle roughly, shipping can escalate things.  high success rate

4. aftermarket axles - low success rates - probably a 20-50% failure rate...escalating over time.

 

I've had aftermarket boots - even Beck Arnleys only last 2 years. 
Subaru boots last much longer.

 

Replacing axles that don't have any noise or vibrations with aftermarket is quite...what's the word for throwing away good parts and installing subpar ones...silly?

 

Aftermarket Replacement axles are low percentage. Roughly 4 out of 10 have issues....that leaves 6 happy people to share their opinions which they think mean something in light of the negative feedback they've read.  But it doesn't. It just means they were in the 60 percent.  No one is saying "100% of aftermarket axles fail".  But when things have such high failure rates, personally I don't care about good experiences. If people vomit 4 times out of 10 eating somewhere - I'm not going there no matter how happy the other 6 are.  If a particular tire blows up 4 out of 10 times, the 6 successes aren't going to sway me to buy them.  Same with axles - I don't have time to install new axles that end up needing replaced again - which I've done in the past multiple times.  And it's never happened with Subaru or FWE axles.

 

I can avoid aftermarket axle issues entirely

It's not expensive.

You don't get much simpler than that in my book.



#11 two85s

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:16 AM

Hey grossgary thanks for the input.  I replaced my original front axles on my wagon with "cardone" from Rock Auto once and less then 500 miles the passenger side axle innerboot split open on a seam.  So they sent another and I did it over again with no problems since.  So for me thats 1 out of 3 defective.  Now my original 1985 rear axle boots are failing and I want to fix both.  My wagon is d/r 5 speed manual non-turbo. 

A) You would advise me to purchase (2) rear axle repair kits from Subaru or FWE? or is it called something else?

B) Then I will need two special tools a c-ring/ snapring pliers and a boot clamp tool and two different greases one type for DOJ (inner boot) and one type for CVJ (outer boot) correct?  (referring to Numbchux axle rebuild thread)

C) Do you know a USMB member/shop who sells (rebuilt to subaru specs) axles?

D) Also, when doing this should I get new wheel bearings, seal(s) for differential, or any other tasks (or parts bought) that should or would be recommended be done while I have the items taken apart?  Again, thanks for the help.  Aaron



#12 AKghandi

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:16 AM

its funny, but the axle i replaced the cup wall between the stub and the cup came apart. i noticed something odd when i pulled the axle off and the stub had blue cv grease on it

 

remans are hit or miss, thats why i keep the originals for spares, unfourunatly only one of mine was original subaru. and i still have it.

 

 

also one of the 4 new axles i put in is kind of clunking.. not enough to worry about as its not very noticable but still mildly irritating,



#13 two85s

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:53 PM

Akghandi thanks for the honesty.  My wagon had all original axles (and boot rubber) that lasted 33-34 years, I have two left, the rears. The two fronts went to rock auto as "cores" and were propably scrapped (my guess).  I want to know also if the internal parts, the inner race, the spring clips, etc can be replaced with new parts.  I have not done this type of work and don't mind so it is done right and I can rely on it for years and years to come.  Thanks for posting, Aaron



#14 grossgary

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:44 AM

So for me thats 1 out of 3 defective.

 

yep - 33% failure rate is atrocious.  that much failure from a particular store, food chain, etc - they'd be trashed.

that rate increases over time far faster than Subaru axles - how many miles on the one with the least mileage?  probably not 100,000 miles?  report back when you have 150,000 miles on them - which all Subaru axles make easily if rebooted.

 

you have broken axle boots in the rear axles - just reboot them.  i've driven subaru rear axles over 100,000 miles with broken boots before, they are robust and failure is weird.  whatever failure rate they have is extremely small and less than every other option.

 

A)  FWE sells axles, not parts, though you can call and ask, but price would be high

B)  Subaru sells parts and axle$$$$$

C) no

D)  i wouldn't replace bearings, they don't fail often enough to warrant it.  and there's hardly any labor savings given how easily the rear axle slides off the rear splined shafts.   same with the rear diff - issues are rare there as well.

 

only replace/repair stuff if you see diff oil leaks or you can hit the rear bearings with a temp gun - if one side is notably hotter than the other, 20 or more degrees, then that might warrant preemptive bearing replacement.



#15 two85s

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:49 AM

I very much appreciate you help grossgary.  My rear axles look to me like they have DOJ's on each end.  So to reboot them myself I need 4 boots, clamps (ZIPTIES some members say to use), tools, and grease.  Where would you order boots or boot replacement kits? Aaron



#16 grossgary

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:24 PM

Where would you order boots or boot replacement kits? Aaron

 

 

Subaru boots for a nearly 100% success rate. 

 

 

 

I've had aftermarket boots - even Beck Arnleys only last 2 years. 
Subaru boots last much longer.

 

Buy the boots from Subaru.

Clamps and grease can come from anywhere - match clamps to the install tool, there's various number of tools/clamps - they have to match.

The squeeze type are simplest, the following are for illustration purposes only:

 

http://www.summitrac...arts/wmr-w83013

 

pretty standard tool, google how to use it/clamps/etc.



#17 two85s

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 01:43 AM

grossgary thanks for the help! Two more questions? 1) The boot clamps installed with the correct tool Vs. heavy duty zipties Vs. large hose clamps to firmly clamp the boots to the axles.  Which is best?

2) My wagon currently has the stock 13" wagon wheels.  If I get a set of pugs or simillar larger wheels so I can get better offroad tires, will I have to change the axles then too?  Thanks if I can help you sometime please let me know, Aaron



#18 AKghandi

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 01:56 AM

tire size wont matter for the axles.

 

i use heavy duty zip ties, 175lb breaking ones from harbor freight.

theres a bit of a technique to tightening them but they work great.

 

i pull them tight as i can with my hands then i grab the tag as close to the locking mechanism as possible with a pair of needle nose pliers, and twist backward away from the locking claw, the tag points directly out the side of the needle nose. i twist till it clicks a few times and that usually does it.

 

much better for trail use as the metal ones require a special tool.


Edited by AKghandi, 06 August 2014 - 01:57 AM.


#19 two85s

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 02:05 AM

Hey thanks AKghandi, is a lift kit required to get the larger tires?



#20 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 03:27 AM

tire size wont matter for the axles.

 

i use heavy duty zip ties, 175lb breaking ones from harbor freight.

theres a bit of a technique to tightening them but they work great.

 

i pull them tight as i can with my hands then i grab the tag as close to the locking mechanism as possible with a pair of needle nose pliers, and twist backward away from the locking claw, the tag points directly out the side of the needle nose. i twist till it clicks a few times and that usually does it.

 

much better for trail use as the metal ones require a special tool.

 

Cable/zip tie guns work amazingly well as well.



#21 l75eya

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 08:28 AM

Zip tie gun?! Want..

#22 grossgary

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:34 AM

hose clamps are wider than the ridges intended for the clamps, i suspect they'd still hold but haven't tried it.  there are companies that sell thin hose clamps, i think they should be more widely available, but alas. 

 

 

i haven't done zipties, but in a sense it doesn't matter - it's just holding the boot in place.  if it holds it tight enough, it'll work.

some people use cable, fence, metal string (whatever it's called for farm use), etc....there's nothing special about it.  gotta be thin enough to wrap and tight enough to hold, that's it.



#23 two85s

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 12:08 AM

I am waiting for parts to do the rear axles.  Thanks for the advice everyone! Two more questions.

1) Do I need to replace used roll pins if so what size (part #) are they or is it fine to reuse the originals?

2) What's best way to clean old grease and dirt out of joints before putting in the new?

thanks, Aaron



#24 AKghandi

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 02:58 AM

The original subaru roll pins are the best. You can tell by the split having zig zags.all the aftermarket ones are junk.

Yes youll wanna clean out any old grease. Brake cleaner will be your friend

#25 two85s

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:08 PM

Thanks AKgandi for your help.  I'll report back here how it goes.  Aaron






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