Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Engine removal fun (EJ22)

ej22 engine removal

  • Please log in to reply
88 replies to this topic

#1 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:06 AM

Finally started on the engine removal of my EJ22 so I could get at the oil separator plate replacement.  I'm knocking on wood as I write that I didn't have any sheared bolts yesterday, which is always a pleasant surprise.

 

For my maiden voyage, I spent about five hours marking, undoing electrical connections and getting everything undone.  The engine is unbolted and ready to lift.  My last three hours were in the dark (I don't have a garage, so I'm in my cul-de-sac) and when I went to get the cherry picker set up I realized that there was only a chain, and no quick links or shackles to attach to the lift points.  I figured that was a good time to pack up for the night.

 

Those lower engine nuts near the drive shafts were a bit of a bear to get.  The passenger side is tight and I had a hard time getting the correct combo to get in there (3/8 wrench with short 14 mm socket was not long enough to clear obstacles, 1/2 with adapter and 14 mm was too long and hit axle cup, 3/8 with deep 14 mm was also too long).  Finally was able to crack it using a standard socket so I could get a swivel on it with a 14 and a long extension.

 

The biggest surprises were (1) the number of acorns sitting on top of the block under the intake manifold next to the coolant crossover pipe and (2) how little gas came out of the fuel lines when I disconnected those.  (The Beer Garage description had me ready to catch a lot more.)

 

Rain predicted for the next few days so the lift will likely have to wait until the weekend.  Then I can replace/reseal the plate and a bunch of other o-rings and seals and tighten up the oil pump screws. 

 

For reference I used this video by Briansmobile1, the factory service manual, and Beer Garage.

Attached Files



#2 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 9,094 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:01 AM

While its sitting wih the fuel lines unhooked, crack open the fuel filler cap so vapor pressure in the tank can vent. If you don't do this you can end up with a few gallons of fuel dumping out through the open lines by the engine.

There are only 3 electrical connections you really need to worry about. The harnesses all meet at the bellhousing in 3 big plugs. Unplug those and unhook the alternator and everything electrical is done.
Occasionally is seen an extra ground strap coming from one of the valve covers (I think people add them) so watch out for one of those when lifting.

I've used several methods for hooking chains to the engine when hooks are not available. You can usenonenof the short bolts that holds the small triangular AF compressor bracket on the front side. On the opposite side there is a bolt hole either on the head or the back/top of the block near the bellhousing where another of the AC bracket bolts will thread in.

#3 WoodsWagon

WoodsWagon

    Formerly 91Loyale

  • Members
  • 3,948 posts
  • NH

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:04 AM

Your fun hasn't started yet if you haven't split the bellhousing. The dowel pins like to rust and lock the two halves together. Spray penetrating oil on them now and hope it soaks in.



#4 Crazyeights

Crazyeights

    Crazyeights

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 1,016 posts
  • Pacific Northwest

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:05 AM

An old seatbelt works great in a pinch for an engine bridle. They are very strong.



#5 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:11 PM

Your fun hasn't started yet if you haven't split the bellhousing. The dowel pins like to rust and lock the two halves together. Spray penetrating oil on them now and hope it soaks in.

Good call on that.  With rain expected all week, I have a few days for some oil to soak in.  I will spray tonight.



#6 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:15 PM

While its sitting wih the fuel lines unhooked, crack open the fuel filler cap so vapor pressure in the tank can vent. If you don't do this you can end up with a few gallons of fuel dumping out through the open lines by the engine.

There are only 3 electrical connections you really need to worry about. The harnesses all meet at the bellhousing in 3 big plugs. Unplug those and unhook the alternator and everything electrical is done.
Occasionally is seen an extra ground strap coming from one of the valve covers (I think people add them) so watch out for one of those when lifting.

I've used several methods for hooking chains to the engine when hooks are not available. You can usenonenof the short bolts that holds the small triangular AF compressor bracket on the front side. On the opposite side there is a bolt hole either on the head or the back/top of the block near the bellhousing where another of the AC bracket bolts will thread in.

 

 I didn't think about the pressure building up in the tank- another good suggestion, thanks.

 

I got the three bellhousing connections and the alt so I'm clear there.  I still need to do a final double check to make sure there isn't anything extra in there but the extra ground strap is a good thing for me to check.

 

I had a vague memory of seeing a description about using some of the bolts to lift, but the night end time seemed like a better option with work looming in the morning.  That and I didn't want to go back inside and search for the info. (I could really use a voice activated computer outside next to my project).  Plus, my arm clean up was a solid 20 minutes with all the oil sludge I had accumulated.



#7 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 28 April 2014 - 02:17 PM

An old seatbelt works great in a pinch for an engine bridle. They are very strong.

I don't have any old seatbelts around, but you are right- they are very strong and tough.  I have some 1" tubular webbing that I've used for rock climbing anchors that could easily support the engine (and would be easier to use as it is narrower and less stiff) but the late hour was a good signal to wrap things up.  I should pick up a seatbelt next run to the junk yard.



#8 ocei77

ocei77

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 492 posts
  • Monticello,NY

Posted 28 April 2014 - 03:41 PM

a ratcheting 14mm would help a lot with those stud nuts plus many other things.

With the car jacked up high on stands,  I've even been able to deal with the driver  side nut from under the car.  That is if I didn't want to pop the roll pin and pull the axle out.

Generally the weight of the engine pops it loose. If not, instead of screwdrivers and putty knives, I just use a bottle jack with a piece of wood against the firewall.

On install I use 2 blocks of wood under the bell housing to raise it up. Only about 2-3 in long and an inch or so high. Pushed back so the front is flush with the housing. Aids in getting those mount bolts clear. Alternative is to jack up the tranny with wood on the jack.

A bolt with large washers will work to attach the chain to the engine mount loop. Watch so that the tension on the chain doesn't put pressure against the tps.

 

O.



#9 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,403 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:13 PM

the climbing webbing will work great,

just don't plan on using it for climbing again.

it may come clean, but probably not.

 

there is a great lift point in the rear where the 3 wire connectors were,

but it comes off with the intake, unless you remove it from the harness.

 

i use the a/c bracket up front.

even if i have to bolt it back on.

i used to put the intake back in place and use an old seat belt on the intake pipes.

but now i have a couple of extra lift brackets that came off the rear of the engine.

i'm a little leery of lifting by a single horizontal bolt.

i would hate to snap it or crack the housing / block.

but the a/c bracket bolted down in 2 or 3 places is a good lift point.

 

 

start with as little slack in the lift chain as possible.

you want it to clear the front grill on your first try.

it is a real pain to get it in the air only to learn you cannot lift it high enough to clear.



#10 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:13 PM

a ratcheting 14mm would help a lot with those stud nuts plus many other things.

With the car jacked up high on stands,  I've even been able to deal with the driver  side nut from under the car.  That is if I didn't want to pop the roll pin and pull the axle out.

Generally the weight of the engine pops it loose. If not, instead of screwdrivers and putty knives, I just use a bottle jack with a piece of wood against the firewall.

On install I use 2 blocks of wood under the bell housing to raise it up. Only about 2-3 in long and an inch or so high. Pushed back so the front is flush with the housing. Aids in getting those mount bolts clear. Alternative is to jack up the tranny with wood on the jack.

A bolt with large washers will work to attach the chain to the engine mount loop. Watch so that the tension on the chain doesn't put pressure against the tps.

 

O.

Oh yeah, a ratcheting 14mm wrench sounds like just the ticket.  I've been eyeing a set of those for a bit...nothing like a project to justify some new tools.  Good suggestion!

 

I have a 3 ton floor jack so I can raise the car pretty high, and I have my jack stands almost maxed.  I did get the driver's side from underneath.  While cursing the tricky placement, I did contemplate popping the roll pin for the axle, but wanted to exhaust all my creative wrench combos before doing that.  My close axle inspection (after wiping away the thick layer of grimy oil sludge) did reveal that I've got two green OEM axle cups, which was a nice surprise.  I saw that one inner CV boot is torn now so I'll be getting some boots to do a rebuild.

 

I have my floor jack in place under the tranny ready to jack it up.  Thanks for the tips.

 

I don't have any large washers at the moment, but that is a good idea.  I'm just going to stop by the local big box hardware store and get a couple of small steel shackles for $3 something each and I'll be set.



#11 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:20 PM

Johnc-  Thanks for the ideas.  

 

My climbing webbing supply has been steadily dwindling because it is so handy.  I've done some great towing with it (just remember to use a bowline so you can actually get the knot undone or you will be cutting it!) and I definitely never use it for climbing after it has been reallocated to industrial use.  

 

I was planning on using the lift point on the bracket where the three main connections were and the other point next to the alternator (I'm assuming that is the A/C bracket?) that has an obvious hook placement.

 

I already have my hoist arm nice and low and the chain I have isn't too long...I don't want to be jacking it any higher than I need to.  Although I have no issues with height because I am outside, I don't want to run out of ram length, as you suggested.



#12 Junkie

Junkie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 65 posts
  • San Luis Obispo, CA

Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:23 PM

In order to be sure you don't run out of length I'd extend the cherry picker all the way. Your engine is pretty light, I know I can pick up an EJ25D solo and I imagine the single cam heads are a little lighter, so the 500lb spot will be more than adequate. 

 

Knocking out the roll pin is very easy, I recommend it. 



#13 jarl

jarl

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 548 posts
  • Ann Arbor area

Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:04 AM

I see your car is an automatic, so one extra precaution: make sure you don't pull the torque converter along with the engine, or you'll have to re-seat it. I was aware of this when I pulled my OBW engine and it still happened :/

 

I think there are a couple of holes where you can insert a scredriver -or something- to hokd the TC in place. I'll need to find out this again in the next few days... I have a '01 in the operating room :)

 

EDIT: For lifting points: as mentioned, the metal bracket where the connectors are mounted (unless it's badly rusted), and the A/C bracket.


Edited by jarl, 01 May 2014 - 11:06 AM.


#14 fgf

fgf

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Mason, NH

Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:23 PM

I recently removed the manual trany in my 96 Legacy 2.2L. The two steel dowel pins start out as slip fits, but the steel and aluminum combo corrodes over the years and can really cement them in place.

There isn't good access to the front ends of the dowels so you can't drive them back towards the trany.  I think the front part of the hole in the engine side necks down to prevent the dowels from sliding forward so trying to pound them forward from the trany side is not a solution.

Cycles of careful heating of the aluminum around the dowels followed by a spray of penetrating oil may help get some oil into the joint, but be careful. aluminum melts awful suddenly.  I also tried some sharp but gentle raps on the exposed back side of the dowels, but you don't want to drive them forward, just to crack the steel/aluminum seam to help the oil penetrate.

Even then I couldn't get the trany to separate so I made some wedges from 1/8" thick by 1/2" wide bar stock.  I ground them down from the 1/8" thickness to a knife edge over about a 1.25" distance - producing a wedge with a "1 in 10" slope.  I carefully tapped several of these into the bell-housing seam, spacing them as evenly around as possible.  Working my way around with gentle tapping finally broke the trany free - phew!

Don't forget to polish the dowels and holes and to slather both with never-seize when reassembling!



#15 ocei77

ocei77

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 492 posts
  • Monticello,NY

Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:05 PM

I have heard of many things owners have done to finally get their engine separated. Some procedures like the above is not something the average person has or can do.

I have only had two instances where the engine has been stuck in the approximately 12-18 engines I've had to remove.

What has worked in those instances and something that everyone has access to is a simple bottle jack.

Place some wood against the firewall. The piston against a projection on the block and pump. It works like a charm. Everytime.

 

 

O.



#16 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 9,094 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:57 PM

Prybar. Tap a small flat head screwdriver into the bellhousing seam to start the separation, then wedge in the prybar. Work each side a little at a time near the center (where the dowels are).
Clean up any rough spots on the mating surfaces with sand paper before putting the two back together.

I had one dowel so stuck it pulled a chunk of aluminum out of the hole. That one took a bigger prybar.

#17 Junkie

Junkie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 65 posts
  • San Luis Obispo, CA

Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:01 PM

Wow, posts like those make me happy that I have a California car. My engine wasn't too hard to get out and I got it back in solo no problem. 



#18 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:43 AM

So many good ideas.  I sprayed liquid wrench again last night so hopefully that is dripping and soaking where it can.

 

This has been a northern Virginia car since its original purchase so there is no significant rust to speak of as salt is limited in use here.  The fasteners inside the engine compartment have been in good shape so far  so I'm hoping that will translate to minimal corrosion along the bell housing...but you never know.   I think I'm going to pick up a bottle jack to have it ready if needed.  I'm sure I will be back with progress reports this weekend.



#19 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 03 May 2014 - 10:28 PM

Success.  Engine is out without too much trouble.  At first, I was lifting the entire car, so I did a another double check and looked at the FSM...turns out, I missed the one bolt that is hidden behind the bell housing bracket that holds the three big wire harness connectors.  Once I got that, I was able to use the method fairtax suggested...a couple of taps with a small flathead screwdriver to gain a crack and then got a pry bar in there and gave it a couple of prys.  Off it popped from the dowels.  I think my torque converter stayed in place but I'll know when I start to get it back together and can see the clearance.

 

Rear main seal and wrist pin access cover looked great (I didn't touch the rear main and replaced the wrist pin o-ring).  Oil separator plate was the old plastic version and looked as it should.  Oil all over that side.  Tons of oil on the crossmember underneath that spot.  https://imageshack.com/i/n7nf2sj

 

https://imageshack.com/i/ndik5ij

 

How much ultra grey is enough under the new plate?  I gave a good smear to cover the width of the seal lip/edge on the engine side.  https://imageshack.com/i/nh0uf0j

https://imageshack.com/i/nhvzn3j



#20 Crazyeights

Crazyeights

    Crazyeights

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 1,016 posts
  • Pacific Northwest

Posted 04 May 2014 - 09:58 AM

IMO any excess sealer just makes a mess anyway. I would also use a medium strength Loctite on the flexplate to crankshaft bolts upon re-assembly. It looks great, good job! What did you use to get the screws out of the wrist pin cover, an impact screwdriver perhaps?  I usually have to give them a pretty good smart with a punch before they come loose for me.


Edited by Crazyeights, 04 May 2014 - 10:02 AM.


#21 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 04 May 2014 - 10:37 AM

What did you use to get the screws out of the wrist pin cover, an impact screwdriver perhaps?  I usually have to give them a pretty good smart with a punch before they come loose for me.

 

Oh yeah, impact screwdriver.  Those cover screws were tight...no movement with a regular screwdriver. 



#22 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 05 May 2014 - 08:07 AM

Picked up some medium threadlocker...flex plate bolts are now secure. 

 

Oil pump was good.  Two of the five screws were loose.  More threadlocker.

 

Both cam cap o-rings are now fresh.  Those cam sprocket bolts were tough.  Nothing like using the wrong tools to hold those things.  I should have cracked them before I removed the engine.  It is so light that torquing on the bolt was moving the block all over.  I finally got it with a modification of the method I saw on Beer Garage.

 

I got one cam seal (left) done.  Getting the right side out is tough.  I'm trying to be careful not to scratch any surfaces. I tried using a self tapping screw to get a hold on the seal, but I think screw was a size too large to be effective and I didn't really get a good bite.  After watching the MilesFox video again last night, I just need to get more muscle into it with a screwdriver. 



#23 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 9,094 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 05 May 2014 - 10:53 AM

Go to sears and pick up one of these: http://www.costplust...72_a_7cLIS58430

Hopefully the link works. It's a Lisle 58430 Shaft type seal puller. Best $15 I ever spent.

Edited by Fairtax4me, 05 May 2014 - 10:54 AM.


#24 upnorthguy

upnorthguy

    New User

  • Members
  • 269 posts
  • Northern Virginia

Posted 07 May 2014 - 07:11 AM

Go to sears and pick up one of these: http://www.costplust...72_a_7cLIS58430

Hopefully the link works. It's a Lisle 58430 Shaft type seal puller. Best $15 I ever spent.

That tool looks excellent.  I ordered one from Sears (they don't stock it in any stores it seems).  Free shipping if you get it slower.

 

Last night I resealed the oil pan with ultra grey and replaced the oil pick up o-ring.  Saw that the right inner timing belt cover, aside from breaking 3 of the 4 mounting tabs when undoing the bolts, had a little melted plastic on the inside edge near the cam seal so I'm going to replace that one.  The left inner cover only had one broken bolt tab and I am going to rig up a zip tie slot as suggested by Fairtax.



#25 Fairtax4me

Fairtax4me

    Su bah roo'n

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 9,094 posts
  • Charlottesburg, VA

Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:41 AM

Odd they don't carry them in the store anymore. I first saw it in the store and went searching online to see if I could find it cheaper. The best I could find was a few dollars cheaper and the shipping cost made that back up. I think I did finally order it online but purchased a few other things at the same time. Certainly one of the best tools I've ever bought. Needed it to do a cam seal on a Camry because there was very limited room between the head and the strut tower. Have used it dozens of times since then and love the way it works.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users