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Engine removal fun (EJ22)

ej22 engine removal

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88 replies to this topic

#51 upnorthguy

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 10:50 PM

Today I removed the intake manifold and reinstalled it, making sure that each connection was a solid click.

Tried starting again and same result- turning over but not catching.

 

Tonight I tried to check for spark.  I took each wire/boot with a plug inserted and set the plug on the block and cranked it and checked for spark.  I did not see anything.  I also checked with the old spark plugs that I just removed (that were working) and also saw no spark.

 

First, I've never done a spark test...but I think that should work, right?

 

Otherwise...any suggestions?



#52 Fairtax4me

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 12:48 PM

That's the same way I've always done it.

Probably need to check for voltage reaching the coil next. Center wire in the coil plug should be 12v.
Is the coil thats on the engine now the original coil?

I re-read most of this thread, I didn't see the year and model mentioned anywhere.

So all you did was pull the engine to replace seals. Did you put new timing parts on it?
The cam seals were replaced, did you make sure the cam sprockets got put back on the correct sides?

Edited by Fairtax4me, 01 June 2014 - 01:09 PM.


#53 upnorthguy

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 02:58 PM

That's the same way I've always done it.

Probably need to check for voltage reaching the coil next. Center wire in the coil plug should be 12v.
Is the coil thats on the engine now the original coil?

I re-read most of this thread, I didn't see the year and model mentioned anywhere.

So all you did was pull the engine to replace seals. Did you put new timing parts on it?
The cam seals were replaced, did you make sure the cam sprockets got put back on the correct sides?

 

This is a 95 LS wagon.  143k.

No idea on the age of the coil...I'm the third owner (since Oct. 2013) and the last one was definitely not mechanically inclined.  They were told/thought the car needed HGs but the problem was really just a bad water pump gasket.  The car was running OK after I fixed that and installed a new battery when I got it although the mileage has been pretty bad (about 15 mpg).

 

Yes, I just pulled to address the separator plate leak (which had built up over time in the typical fashion...the lower crossmember and everything near it had a hefty layer of oil sludge).  New timing parts.  New spark plugs, new fuel filter.

 

I will double check the cams, but I made it a point to have the correct one on the driver side for the sensor.

 

When you say the "center wire in the coil plug" do you mean when I unplug the connection the ignition coil that I check the incoming feed connection for 12v?



#54 upnorthguy

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 03:50 PM

Assuming that is right, I checked positive to center  of plug going to ignition coil and ground to engine and cranked- no voltage.



#55 upnorthguy

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 10:42 PM

I confirmed the correct cam got reinstalled on each side after the seal replacements.

#56 Fairtax4me

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:05 AM

Assuming that is right, I checked positive to center of plug going to ignition coil and ground to engine and cranked- no voltage.

Do what now? I'm not following what you said here.

Red lead should be on the center wire going to the coil. Stick a paper clip into the back of the connector so it reaches all the way in to touch the metal terminal. Make sure it doesn't touch anything else. Touch the lead to the paper clip. Use insulated alligator clips to connect the lead to the paper clip if you don't have a helper to crank the engine.
Black lead should be on the battery negative post.

I don't recall if there is a fuse for the ignition coil. I'll have to check.

Edited by Fairtax4me, 02 June 2014 - 01:05 AM.


#57 upnorthguy

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 08:17 AM

Do what now? I'm not following what you said here.

Red lead should be on the center wire going to the coil. Stick a paper clip into the back of the connector so it reaches all the way in to touch the metal terminal. Make sure it doesn't touch anything else. Touch the lead to the paper clip. Use insulated alligator clips to connect the lead to the paper clip if you don't have a helper to crank the engine.
Black lead should be on the battery negative post.

I don't recall if there is a fuse for the ignition coil. I'll have to check.

The grey plastic connector has three terminals and I was a little suspect of getting my voltmeter red lead in there on the middle one (the tip is too wide to totally insert it) but I held it to the center connector as helper cranked.  I touched black lead to the engine block.

I will try the paper clip in the connector (which will definitely make a more certain connection) and black to battery negative.



#58 upnorthguy

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 10:00 PM

No voltage (when cranking) at center pin of connector that supplies the ignition coil. I was trying to look at the wiring diagram to see what the next step in the circuit. Ignitor?

#59 Fairtax4me

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 11:06 AM

Did you unplug the connector to verify and put the meter lead directly on the terminal? And you made sure the meter works correctly?

Power to the coil comes from the fuse panel. I haven't had a chance to look if there is a fuse or if it gets power from the main relay. Check both fuse boxes.

Power for the coil comes through the connectors on the bellhousing so a problem there would also prevent the coil from getting power. Make sure none of the terminals have backed out of the connectors. Make sure none of the pins inside the connectors are bent.

#60 upnorthguy

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 12:07 PM

Meter is functional as I was also checking voltage of battery and other places as I played around.

I did unplug the connector and had paper clip inserted into the center terminal of connector feeding the coil.

 

I will check those bellhousing connectors.

 

I did a visual check of the fuses, but I will check again.  I think the wiring diagram points me to fuse 16 (but I'm a rookie when it comes to reading those things!).


Edited by upnorthguy, 03 June 2014 - 12:07 PM.


#61 upnorthguy

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 07:24 PM

Terminals and connectors at bellhousing looked good- all there (that were supposed to be there anyways) and nothing bent or pulled out.  

The FSM I'm looking at (p. 19 here) show fuse 16 in the diagram.  On page 18 the fuse box shows where 16 is located, but my fuse box does not look like that, so I can't figure out how to match that up.  The configuration of my fuses matches a cover shown here

fuseboxcover.jpg

I looked at the 15A that is labeled EG/IGN SRS AIR BAG as that looked to be the most likely contender, and I swapped it with another 15A, still no voltage to the yellow wire at the connector that feeds the ignition coil.


Edited by upnorthguy, 03 June 2014 - 08:07 PM.


#62 Fairtax4me

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 07:40 PM

There are fuses under the hood as well. Be sure to check there.

#63 upnorthguy

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:05 PM

I have already checked the fuses under the hood (although I don't think they are involved here from what I can make out on the wiring diagram).

#64 Fairtax4me

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:58 PM

What I have says FB 16 feeds the coil. That's Fuse 16 in the dash fuse box.
That fuse gets power from the ignition switch. Should have 12v at fuse 16 with the key On and during cranking.
Check for voltage at the fuse panel. If none there, check SBF 4 in the under hood panel.

#65 Fairtax4me

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 09:59 PM

Double post.

Edited by Fairtax4me, 03 June 2014 - 10:00 PM.


#66 upnorthguy

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 10:18 PM

What I have says FB 16 feeds the coil. That's Fuse 16 in the dash fuse box.
That fuse gets power from the ignition switch. Should have 12v at fuse 16 with the key On and during cranking.
Check for voltage at the fuse panel. If none there, check SBF 4 in the under hood panel.

Per my post above, I don't know how to make the correlation between the FSM fuse 16 and what I have in my dash fuse box.  Any suggestions on how I identify which one is 16?

I just checked the fuse I identified from the cover as EG/IGN SRS AIR BAG and there is 12v at the fuse when I turn the key to the on position.



#67 Fairtax4me

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:35 AM

There is a fuse chart in the FSM which has them numbered. It's not in the wiring diagrams, though I think its earlier in the wiring section.

The IGN/SRS labeled fuse should be the correct one. So it appears you have an open somewhere between the coil and the fuse panel. As I said before, the power for the coil runs through one of the large connectors on the bell housing. I would check there on the proper pin for 12v getting to that plug. Check on both sides with it plugged together. Use the paper clip method.

If you have 12v on both sides of that plug start following the coil harness pigtail, and somewhere between the bell housing and coil plug you may find a broken, cut, or pinched wire.

#68 upnorthguy

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 10:50 PM

Today I checked for power at the yellow wire coming to the bellhousing connections (with key in run position)- 12v confirmed.  Checked continuity on yellow wire (and the other two wires) that continue from the bellhousing connection to the connector for the ignition coil and all three wires were OK.  

 

With the key in run I have 12v at the connector feeding the ignition coil now (not sure why I wasn't getting it there before).  Plugged everything back in and tried to fire it up and get the same result...cranking but not catching.

 

I checked the spark plugs on the block and I am getting a spark now.  I know I have gas coming in as there was quite a bit in the line coming from the fuel filter when I undid that hose today.



#69 Fairtax4me

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 10:44 AM

Ok, now you at least have spark.

After cranking for a few seconds can you smell fuel in the tail pipe? If you can there's a good chance its getting enough fuel.

Pull all 4 plugs, leave them out and let the cylinders air out for a few hours.

#70 upnorthguy

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 06:33 PM

Finally got a chance to play around today.  Cylinders were very aired out.

 

Plugs back in and cranked.  I smelled the tail pipe and I didn't smell a darn thing.  Even though the fuel line from the filter to the intake manifold tube spewed gas the other day when I removed the manifold...maybe I am not getting enough fuel/fuel pressure? Or maybe there is fuel getting to the manifold but the injectors aren't working properly? 



#71 Fairtax4me

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:45 AM

Re-check for spark.
Check for 12V getting to the injectors. Can you hear the pump prime when the key is turned On?

#72 upnorthguy

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 07:47 PM

Checked for spark again-confirmed. 

I have 12v at the injector plugs.

I think I can hear the fuel pump prime when I turn the key to run.

Still nada.  The car has been sitting since the 14th and I was just able to get to it today.  When I tried to start it, the engine rumbled a bit like it was going to catch and may have fired once or twice, then went back to the turning over but not catching like it has been.

Should I pull the fuel hose after the filter and make sure it is pumping out some gas to confirm fuel pump operation?



#73 Fairtax4me

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 10:42 PM

Yeah, you may want to make sure its actually pumping fuel. Just because the pump makes noise doesn't mean its actually pumping.

Stick the supply line into a plastic bottle and see how much you get when the pump primes.

#74 virginiaham

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 11:01 PM

make sure you have injector pulse. if you have fuel pressure, but the injectors aren't firing, then no fuel actually gets into the cylinders. unplug one injector, it doesn't matter which one, just and easy one to get to, and plug a test light into the connector. you may have to use two paper clips into the female terminals to get a good connection. if you have a noid light, that would be preferable, but most home mechanics dont have those. anyway, make sure your test light leads aren't going to get caught on any moving belts or anything, and crank the engine over. if the light flashes, you have injector pulse, if you dont see any flashing, check at least one other injector or pulse. if you find you dont have any pulse to all your injectors, now you have to figure out why. camshaft and crankshaft position sensors would be the most likely culprits. the injectors are "ground-side" controlled by the ECM. that means they have a constant supply of 12V when the key is on, and the circuit is grounded by the ECM to allow current to flow and the solenoid valve to operate. the ECM uses the CKP and CMP sensors to determine when to fire each injector. if the sensors are good, then either you have a wiring problem, or bad injector drivers in the ECM. in my experience, bad ECMs are rare on subarus. most likely, either you have a bad cam or crank sensor. hope this helps. 



#75 upnorthguy

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:41 AM

Thanks for the suggestions.  

I'll check fuel output.

--> When I turn the key to run about 1/4 to 1/3 cup of gas gets pumped out when pump primes.

 

I'll check for injector pulse.  

--> Right, I don't have a set of noid lights as VAham suggested, but a good tip in a comment on a youtube video suggested using a #194 bulb and bending the contact wires to make it fit.  I did that and had injector pulses (I only checked two of the four injector plugs because I was doing it solo, but I figure the other two are likely pulsing as well).

 

I was down at pickapartva two weeks ago for a few trim pieces and picked up a couple cam and crank sensors so I have alternates to try if needed.


Edited by upnorthguy, 29 June 2014 - 02:17 PM.






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