chrisfen Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Hey guys.... first post, here. My wife's 2004 Outback 2.5 4EAT was experiencing the infamous rear wheel Binding while slowly turning into a parking spot. I knew it would be a rear clutch pack and Duty C solenoid. I had the dealer do the work, since we needed it done in 3 days. We were moving. SO, the dealer got the work done for a little over $1000.00. Ok, we drive to our new house several states away. Hmmmmm... funny, when I hit the gas, the front tires are spinning on the new gravel driveway! What? No Rear wheel drive anymore!! AT Light not lit. FWD fuse not in. DEX III filled and double checked. Well, I'm thinking, it just HAS to be a defective Duty C. Can't take it back to that dealer now, so I ordered another one, with new gaskets for everything I had to remove. Installed it, no problem. DANG!! Still no Rear wheel drive! So I pulled the TCU codes this time. Code 93 - Rear vehicle Speed Sensor. Well the rear sensor is part of the Trans wiring harness, so I order and install the trans Wiring Harness. Button everything back up.... still no Rear wheel drive. So I ask the dealers Tech guy what would cause error 93. He suggested the Reduction Drive Shaft, as sometimes the welds on the Stamped gear shear off. I knew from the last time that I was in the Extension case, the stamped gear was on and looked great, and it would not spin independently of the Reduction drive gear, so I was a little reluctant to replace it. But I went ahead and ordered up the shaft, gear, bearing, and seals. I pressed all together, then dropped the Extension case again, and pulled out old reduction shaft and installed new reduction shaft. Still no Rear wheel drive. Soooo.... I am at a loss as to what to do next. Does the tranny have to come out and get rebuilt? Is there anything else I can check before this? Also, I am not a car mechanic, just a "Weekend" Mechanic. But I am a certified A&P mechanic. Thanks guys. If you need them, I do have the list of the part numbers for everything I installed, as well as the part numbers for everything the dealer initially installed. Edited May 21, 2014 by chrisfen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 wow, how bizarre. good lucky knocking out the rear extension housing work, that's not an oil change to jump right into it like that. So I pulled the TCU codes this time. Code 93 - Rear vehicle Speed Sensor.. the first suspect here would be the rear speed sensor itself, why was that not replaced first? i wonder if the wrong Duty C solenoid was installed? around 03 - 04 there were changes to the operation of the Duty C solenoid. the newer style works backwards of the older style in terms of duty cycle powering it "on" instead of "off" so to speak. seems like you'd get a AT light flashing for that though and a code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfen Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Yes, I knew about the changes to the Duty C during that time frame. So I double-checked what the dealer put in, and I thought it was correct. Duty C installed by dealer was P/N 31942AA130 (valve AY-TRF CCH). I ordered the same P/N when I replaced it. If it was the wrong Duty C, I think the rear clutch pack would be "Locked" if the FWD fuse was in place. But with the FWD fuse in place, it still didn't have Rear wheel drive. The Subaru Tech guy I spoke with about the code, said it wasn't the speed sensor, but more likely the Reduction Shaft. Since the rear Speed sensor is hardwired onto the Trans Wiring Harness, I took it upon myself to replace the Trans Wiring Harness, with all sensors. Yep, that didn't fix it either... Edited May 21, 2014 by chrisfen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Are you sure they didn't leave the rear trans drive shaft unbolted? When I tow, I remove the 4 bolts between the drive shaft and rear diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfen Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Nope, driveshaft was bolted in place. I had to remove it when I pulled the Extension case, then I reinstalled it. Good question though. Also, when I spin the driveshaft with my hands, the diff, axles and rear wheels do spin correctly, so that rules out a blown diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Did you make sure the output drum has the correct number of clutch plates? There is a port on the back where you can check line pressure to the transfer clutch. It's on the upper left side of the tail housing. If you have a pressure guage I would suggest doing that. I would also want to make sure the oil feed ports in the extension and tail housing are clear. There could be RTV or a peice of gasket stuck in the port blocking line pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) Yes, if they put in the wrong solenoid and valve I would expect it to lock up with the FWD fuse in- new style, fuse in = 0V on the line, and 0v with the old valve and solenoid is max lockup. For the years that are different, the plate, valve, and solenoid are all visibly different. Would be interested to see a pic of the old unit if you still have it, and if you happen to have a pic of the new as well. There is a screen filter behind the valve unit, if that is plugged there will be no pressure. There is at least one square-edge O-ring that if damaged or missing, the fluid will not transfer from the housing to the clutch unit. If the pipe in the rear housing is split or loose, also no pressure. Pressure test is the next best step, as mentioned. Edited May 22, 2014 by CNY_Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 BTW when you get it sorted out at least you have a hatfull of spare parts to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfen Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Heres a close-up picture of the new clutch pack that the dealer installed. I count .... 5 plates? Also, heres the pic of the Duty-C. This is the one the dealer installed. The replacement Duty-C I bought was exact same P/N and looked exactly the same. Also, a pic of the old Reduction shaft alongside the new reduction shaft I put in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Check your rear diff. My son and my Daughters cars over the years both had a rear half shaft pop out about a 1/2. All the torque was going no where. They were both manual transmissions and it felt just like a slipping clutch. One way to confirm the rear diff is good is to try to turn the input shaft/rear drive shaft with both rear wheels on the ground. It should not rotate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 There is supposed to be a nice thick rubber washer where the valve connects to the tail housing- did the washer stick to the tailhousing or is it missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfen Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Please elaborate. The Valve is not mounted to the tailhousing. I just double checked the parts diagram and I do not see where there should be a rubber gasket, except under the two mounting bolts for the valve. Do you have a diagram of that rubber washer? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfen Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Here is a pic of the valve and where it should contact the Extension Case. It sure looks like there should be a gasket there!!! But when I removed the Extension case after the dealer had replaced the Duty C and the clutch pack, there was not a gasket there. I cannot find a P/N for one. I'll keep checking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfen Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Could this be the missing rubber washer????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Could be! They call it: Seal-Transfer Clutch. http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b12/type_27/automatic_transmission/at_transfer_and_extension/illustration_3/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfen Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) I think I posted the wrong position for the Seal, in the above thread. Heres a new pic of where I believe the seal should go. The Service guide doesn't even mention it, in the "Remove/Replace Duty C Solenoid" Section. It must be mentioned elsewhere, but I haven't found it. Seal on order. Edited May 30, 2014 by chrisfen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) Here's the seal on my '03 valve (same spot on '04, but where the solenoid goes in is machined differently on the '04) http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=7520 Other pics in: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/136710-successful-inversion-of-transfer-solenoid-signal/ : http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/136898-need-pic-of-4eat-2004-transfer-valve/ Edited June 4, 2014 by CNY_Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfen Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) Hey Dave, Thanks for the picture! Yep, that little bugger was missing from the Duty C that the dealer had installed. And when I replaced the Duty C to see if the dealer had installed a defective one , I did not know about that seal, so I never installed one, either! Not 5 minutes ago, UPS dropped off a small package containing two seals. Heck, they are only $1.48 each, so I got 2 of them, just in case I screwed one up. I am scheduled to get the Outback on my neighbor's lift on Saturday. I'll post if that fixes the issue. I'm sure it will! Edited June 4, 2014 by chrisfen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Probably a good bet that will fix it. Without the seal pressure for the clutch pack will just bleed off back into the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 If I knew your neighbor had a lift I would NEVER have helped! :P :P :P :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfen Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 Well tonight I got my wife's Outback up on my neighbor's lift. Installed the Transfer Clutch Seal. 2 1/2 hours, start to finish. Filled up DEX III, warmed up everything, and put the front bumper against a big tree. All 4 wheels spun! A $1.48 seal kept 4WD from working. Thanks to all who helped me resolve this! I checked the dealer's receipt from when I had the Clutch pack and Duty C replaced, and they never listed the Transfer Clutch Seal in the new parts list. Should I complain to the dealer that they had broke the 4WD, and what it took for me to fix it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Yeah I think I'd tell 'em what-fer! I probably would have told 'em what-fer when the AWD didn't work in the first place. Glad to hear its all fixed!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I can't see how someone who looks at those things for a living could miss seeing it missing. I have to imagine the seal fell off while maneuvering the tail section back on. Of course then they had to have ignored seeing it on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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