BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 To: Wagonist: Thank you. You say: "The radius rod goes through a plate which also holds the front gearbox crossmember. These need to be spaced down also."Okay. I have been learning that I also will need to adjust the five speed gear shifter, and the stick that attaches to the transmission and shifts into/outof four wheel high and low. I'm going to guess that by 'front gearbox' you mean transmission. (hmmm. I have a transmission in the front and a rear differential in the back as far as I understand and see). So I am aware of lowering the transmission (or gearbox) crossmember, and I looked at the bolts to do that, but it sounds like you are also saying there is also a plate there which the radius rod goes through that needs lowered. Its late and dark at the moment, but I will look that over tomorrow, examining this radius rod and plate to further understand what you describe. P.S. every time I am searching, I am finding the best equipment on Australian sites. I was looking at these beautiful custom bumpers with an outward swinging tire mount and another outward swinging jerrycan mount. Much like I had been fantasizing building for my car. Also lots of custom bumpers, racks, lights, etc. It seems like there is a good group of Subaru enthusiasts there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 I don't know how you make a picture attachhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radius_rodWhat I am finding for 'radius rod" here is an arm that runs to the wheel parallel to the control arm, rack and pinion etc. There is a picture in the wikipedia link above. Is this also the part you call the radius rod? I will look tomorrow and see if it runs through a plate which attaches to the transmission cross-member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Wait.. If you just get a decent lift and axles, you dont have to mess with all this extra stuff. I've dd a few 2" lifted cars on 27's and I didn't have any axle issues. When you first lift a car the axles usually don't last long because they are broken in at a certain angle, but if you get some good rebuilt subaru axles, you'll have a good start. Next is how you drive. Don't power it/accelerate through corners and coast instead. Accelerate slowely, not having sway bars gives the front complete mobility and when you goose it, the front will raise up and the axles will be at tight angles. This is usually when axle boots tear for me. Another thing is avoid turning at full lock, this is another point that boots tend to tear. Drive it like your grandma in a truck and your car will love you. Get some rebuilt subaru axles. Do not get "new axles" and expect part house axle rebuilds to not last long. I got 3 axles from oriellys and they used light machine oil in the DOJ instead of cv grease...it got really scary when the DOJ decided to make my car hop while going down the freeway. I know Shawn has connections to get axles and I think hes in your neighborhood. I've never used crossmember spacers and I've never seen an EA82 with them on a 2" lift. Cross member spacers might correct camber issues, but all your doing there is polishing a dog turd because the lift blocks are no good if the camber is positive to begin with. A 2" lift with no drop will not eat tires if the lift is made right. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Josh,How can I find Shawn on here? Also when you say "I've dd a few 2" lifted cars on 27's" what does this mean? What are 27's?I want to preserve my turning radius so I am going to drop it, troublesome as that may be, however, I do want to get good axles and I would like to contact this Shawn to find them. Thank you, Patty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 He's saying he has daily driven cars with 2" lifts running 27" tires. ShawnW is his name on here. You can look him up in the members list. He also has a for sale thread in the for sale section that is at the very top of that section. Last time I checked, he didn't have the axles anymore and said to contact the place that had them directly. I can't remember the name of the place though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontoontodd Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 You can also just remove the small end boot straps, especially if you're not doing a lot of river crossings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Josh,You also say "lift blocks are no good if the camber is positive to begin with" When you say 'camber' do you mean 'the slight sideways inclination of the front wheels of a motor vehicle'? If so how would the lifts be built wrong that would cause this? Also are you saying the 1" drop will not correct for this? It seems the 1" drop will correct the extreme angle my CV's are at right now, which is what I want to correct. Thanks, Patty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 To: Todd: I plan to possibly move those closer, or look for a longer boot if it looks like I need it after I correct the angle. .. It depends about the river crossing. When I work in Skagway with sled dogs in the summer I like to cross the river to the dog yard and park on the close side every day so that is a good thing to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Josh,You also say "lift blocks are no good if the camber is positive to begin with" When you say 'camber' do you mean 'the slight sideways inclination of the front wheels of a motor vehicle'? If so how would the lifts be built wrong that would cause this? Also are you saying the 1" drop will not correct for this? It seems the 1" drop will correct the extreme angle my CV's are at right now, which is what I want to correct. Thanks, Patty http://lmgtfy.com/?q=suspension+camber I only bring up the camber issue because the lifts that I've seen that do eat axles are not made right and make the wheels sit with positive camber. The EA82 lift blocks are suppose to be at a 17-19* angle to match the existing suspension geometry. If the blocks are built with the correct angle, you will have equal or better than stock camber. If its positive, the angles are off and you probably want a new lift. A 2" lift can be bought for $50 if you look around and built for $20 if your inclined to make it yourself. I'll say it again, the cross member drop might correct camber issues slightly, but all your doing there is polishing a dog turd because the lift blocks are no good if the camber is positive to begin with. If its positive, fix it right and get new blocks. A crossmember drop will take stress off the axles, which helps, but again, if you get the right axles, its not an issue. I wouldn't say a 2" lift with no drop causes extreme axle angles, but it does max it out. Once you get good axles and a boot does tear, Dorman has really good silicone replacement boots that are a lot tougher than the stock rubber ones. Josh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 To: Goloyale, Thank you for your advice. You say "buy spacers from a Legacy Outback 96-99..... the ones for the front crossmeber, and the ones for the trans corssmember. get the bolt(s) too. and buy a regular legacy steering coupler. install on your car. done." This sounds very straight foward. When you say "a regular legacy steering coupler" is that also 96-99 or what do you mean by "regular?" Do you mean a newer year one? Thank you, Patty P.S. I assume I will still need to adjust my stick shift and 4 wheel high low shift stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ystrdyisgone Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Patty, I recently have been going through many of the same issues with the same vehicle, same lift, same tires. The legacy coupler they are referring to would be first generation legacy(not outback), which is 90-96 i believe. I installed crossmember spacers from an outback(1 1/4") and build the rest of my spacers. I sandwiched, and welded 1/2'' flat stock to make 1'' spacers for the rest of the components (transmission crossmember, radius rod brackets). Just to be safe I also used a single layer of the 1/2" flat stock and spaced the carrier bearing and the dogbone looking plate down. Said plate is attached under the trans tunnel near the tail end of the transmission, attached with 4 bolts, you'll see it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 To: Goloyale, Thank you for your advice. You say "buy spacers from a Legacy Outback 96-99..... the ones for the front crossmeber, and the ones for the trans corssmember. get the bolt(s) too. and buy a regular legacy steering coupler. install on your car. done." This sounds very straight foward. When you say "a regular legacy steering coupler" is that also 96-99 or what do you mean by "regular?" Do you mean a newer year one? Thank you, Patty P.S. I assume I will still need to adjust my stick shift and 4 wheel high low shift stick. I mean regular Legacy as opposed to "outback" legacy. You shold not need to adjust the shifter with just the 2" http://lmgtfy.com/?q=suspension+camber If the blocks are built with the correct angle, you will have equal or better than stock camber. If its positive, the angles are off and you probably want a new lift. A 2" lift can be bought for $50 if you look around and built for $20 if your inclined to make it yourself. I'll say it again, the cross member drop might correct camber issues slightly, but all your doing there is polishing a dog turd because the lift blocks are no good if the camber is positive to begin with. If its positive, fix it right and get new blocks. A crossmember drop will take stress off the axles, which helps, but again, if you get the right axles, its not an issue. I wouldn't say a 2" lift with no drop causes extreme axle angles, but it does max it out. I wholeheartedly DISAGREE. You talk of "i've seen" this and that is anecdotal. Do the math and measurements........Make some lift kits and install them and see the difference between strut tops only VS. tops+drop.........and then drive both setups......and work on both types of setups brought to you by customers.........record the findings..........AND then you will see clearly that Tops+drop is WAAAY better. You will eat axles (or at least boots) and wear out your tires running tops only. Not to mention the terrible handling of a maxed out geometry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 To: Wagonist. Thank you. I got under the car and I see the radius rod and how it is supported by a metal plate, and that this plate could be lowered independent of the gearbox crossmember. Would it be ok to do that. I mean, can I lower the engine 1" and leave the transmission where it is? I know the two connect in the bell housing, and I wonder if they both have to be lowered the same to keep the angle there the same, or if its only an inch if the engine can be lowered (and the radius rod) and the transmission left where it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 I'm so excited! I have gone from being overwhelmed and discouraged looking at a problem I knew nothing about to feeling like I really am starting to understand the components involved and believing that I can adjust them without endangering my own life by doing something ignorant and unsafe. Going into the city today and tomorrow so I can pick up the parts and head toward installation! To: Golayal: Thank you so much for your help. You really seem to know the cars and what you are talking about. I have only a couple final questions for you just to really understand the reality of how the car works. 1. could I lower the engine 1" and the radius rod support 1" (extending the steering coupler of course. I can cut and weld this to proper length if I end up going with 1" instead of the outback 1 1/4") and leave the transmission where it is?2. Do the engine and transmission have to be lowered the same amount? (ysterdyisgone lowered his engine 1 1/4" and his tranny and radius rod only 1" -is that kosher? do where the engine and trans connect in the bell housing have to remain the same straight and level?) Thank you! Patty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Thank you everyone answering my questions and guiding me in the right direction. You have no Idea how much easier it has made my life. The car is essential to the life, and understanding it is essential to supporting its proper functioning. I also honestly love the car. I just haven't fully understood it yet. I want to put a tire holder and jerry can holder on the back, lights on the top, and paint it orange with black racing stripes. (or maybe dark green) That is the fantasy at this point. But taking care of its basic functioning and internal organs is first!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ystrdyisgone Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 When the time comes, there is a company that makes a bumper with tire swing options. I think he is a member on here but I'm not sure. Seems to me a swinging jerry can holder wouldn't be too difficult to add on to it. http://www.headtraumainc.com/subaru.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Thanks for the link ystrdyisgone. The only ones I was finding were in Australia. (they have some good subaru action going on down under!) This looks awesome. I hope to figure it out and build my own (cause I like to feel competent) but if I just decide to buy this place looks like it has the sort of things Im looking for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Lower the Engine and Trans crossmember 1-1/4" with outback spacers. This will keep the engine/trans level and prevent the U-joint at the back of trans from pointing "up" which would increase it's angle. The radius plates do not need to drop....they can stay put for a 2" lift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudduck Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I'm gonna do this on my 2" lifted car. I haven't really noticed any funny tire wear, but I am tired of tearing axleboots every couple of months. And driving this car like a grandma, well, that just ain't gonna happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 To: Mudduck: I know right? I appreciate everyone's advice, I really do, But if I have to baby the car -whats the point? I'm customizing to increase the range of performance, not limit it. It also does not make sense to leave it in a configuration that consistently destroys parts. Its bad for the planet, bad for time management, hard on the pocketbook, and (as Spock would say) simply illogical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 7, 2014 Author Share Posted June 7, 2014 P.S. To Mudduck: What Goloyal says seems smart and easy (unless you want to cut metal and drill and weld it because it is fun - I always say Just because it's a bad Idea doesn't mean it wont be a good time). In my town there isn't a good subaru junkyard or anything. The best place to get stuff is a second hand parts department of a local subie repair shop. I went and asked them to pull the outback spacers, bolts, and the regular legacy steering coupler for me and they are going to. the only thing they said that surprised me is they said the spacer for the transmission is actually welded to its crossmember, so if that is the case he is going to pull the whole crossmember for me. I might use that or just cut a 1 1/4" piece of metal. I was just surprised while the engine one is unattached, and the transmission one is welded. I was also surprised cause goloyal didn't mention it and he seems to be well experienced with the cars. Anyway, thats all. Just a small item of note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ystrdyisgone Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) When you get the transmission crossmember could you snap a pic of said spacers? In all my searching I was unable to find such a thing. Hence why I only dropped my trans xmember an inch. Edited June 7, 2014 by ystrdyisgone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Yeah sure, if I can figure out how to put a picture on here. I myself have never seen them yet. I went under a neighbors car who has an outback and easily saw the engine spacers, but I did not see transmission spacers. I don't know what year that car is though. I am curious about the transmission spacers too. I'm going to try to get under an earlier outback model and see if there are tran spacers that are welded...not ...or what.Wonder if they sell 11/4" steel stock at my local place (or anywhere). Its relatively cheap to buy the used spacers (20 -40 prob) but its only $25 to buy a 20" piece of 1" x 2" steel stock. They'd prob even cut it to the lengths I want at the place too. Sadly no pull and pay type subaru junkyards in boulder. I know one in Denver, but it is for all cars and only has a couple rows of Subarus..still. I ought to visit that place again. I guess once I get my car sorted more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BestCar/OnlyCar Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Could also weld 1/4" on top of 1" maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ystrdyisgone Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Yeah same here, my wife has a 99 Outback, and I don't see no stinking trans spacers under there.. I thought about welding an extra 1/4 inch on there, but it was the end of the day, I was tired, and I figured 1/4" shouldn't be too big of an issue. Guess I'll find out eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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