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Help- EA81 Second Gen Brat does NOT want to idle


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18 replies to this topic

#1 tdodge41

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 01:49 PM

So... I have been having this constant battle with my 1985 second gen brat. It wont idle. It idles rough for about 30 seconds and then slowly goes down till it dies. Increasing the idle screw doesnt help much till its idling at 2000 which is way too high. I know i am in need of a clutch and plan on doing it in the next few weeks. Could the clutch be affecting my idling? I have the standard hitachi carb on there. 



#2 TomRhere

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 07:40 PM

Check for vacuum leaks to start with.

I had the vac hose going to the canister behind the PS strut tower come off. Thinking I swapped out the hose, but not sure.

Check all other hoses for cracks, splits what have you.

 

2nd guess would be the Anti-diesel Valve on carb.

Wires for it get frayed near the valve, cause to do funky things.

You can remove valve from carb and gut it, reinstall the shell.

 

Not sure of it's condition any more, but I do have a Hitachi here off an '86 BRAT.

Still have the Weber on EA82 manifold also.



#3 skishop69

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 08:54 PM

You could have some junk in the float bowl as well. Getting in and blocking up the idle circuit or the idle circuit could just be blocked. Take the mixture screw out of the base of the carb and blow compressed air in the hole. Install the screw until it bottoms out lightly, then back it out 1.5 turns. Start and run. If it idles, adjust the screw in and out until the idle is smoothest. I haven't had my carb apart in forever, but isn't the fuel shut off solenoid only on the California models?



#4 seventythree

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 10:04 PM

I've heard clogged fuel filters mentioned in the past.

When's the last time you replaced the fuel filters?

 

My Brat was in storage for a decade so she's getting all new filters, bearings, and such.

 

I have the first fuel filter- the one down by the  fuel pump, i could send your way.( an extra in me box o' parts)

The second filter is up in the right hand corner of the engine bay by the brake fluid reservoir.



#5 tdodge41

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 10:17 PM

Thanks very much for the replies! 

 

TomRHere: I went through and thought I checked all the vacuum hoses. Im sure there could be something im missing. All the hoses seem pretty old and potentially cracked, its something I would love to replace this summer. And thanks for the info on the anti-diesel valve. I will have to find a carb diagram to figure out where that is. 

 

skishop69: Thanks for the tip. I recently took the air cleaner top off and didnt see much looking wrong, but I might grab some carb cleaner and shoot it in there. And I will have to check my haynes manual to figure out where the idle circuit is and how to get to all that. 

 

seventythree: I hope its not the fuel filters, although I dont know how long they are supposed to last. I did both a year ago when I first bought the car, along with alternator belt and plugs and wires. 



#6 tdodge41

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:13 AM

TomRhere you guessed it. Went thru the how to keep your subaru alive manual and did the anti-diesel valve test. No clicking when unplugging the wires and plugging back in. Tom, you said you can gut those things? And then the car still works? Wires dont look frayed at all, but it does look pretty filthy. I called the local Oreilly and they didnt really know what I was talking about. 



#7 ferox

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 12:23 PM

Like Gloyale always says: pop the top off the carb, pull the emulsion tubes, wear safety goggles, and use compressed air to blow out the tubes and circuits in the carb [mind the ball in the bottom of the accel pump].  Get a rebuild kit, at a minimum replace the venturi o-rings and accel pump.  

 

It's really best to just clean the holy living crap out of the carb inside and out and rebuild it ~$30.  It's not that difficult if you can follow instructions and it's not as hard as people say to get a Hitachi to run well.  If you clean it out really good and go through the step-by-step instructions to rebuild it, it will run great for years.  All you will have to do is clean it occasionally and replace the accel pump.

 

Def +1 on checking fuel filter and vapor separator, also choke and timing.

 

When the carb is dialed in correctly it will respond well to the idle mix screw.  If the rpms and idle quality do not respond to the mix screw, then the idle circuit has been bypassed.  It's well worth it to redo everything from the base gaskets on up.

 

I would recommend removing, inspecting, and cleaning the anti-dieseling valve, but before removing it I recommend cutting the power supply wire running to it and attaching spade or bullet connectors.  This allows you to disconnect the wire while unscrewing the valve, otherwise the wire twists up and the old insulation cannot prevent the wire from twisting off completely.  It also makes it easier to jump it to a 12v source to check for function.  In fact many anti-dieseling valve malfunctions are caused by the wire becoming frayed where it meets the valve from repeated removals and installations.


Edited by ferox, 07 June 2014 - 12:24 PM.


#8 TomRhere

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 06:08 AM

Haven't gutted one myself, just read of it being done.

 

Had a few Hitachi carbs where the wires to the valve were in bad shape, right at the valve, no easy way to fix them from what I could see.

 

I'll look around to see if there may be a good one around here.



#9 tdodge41

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 10:26 AM

So after replacing the fuel filters it still wont idle. I am wondering: what do people think is the best rebuild kit out there for a hitachi carb in an 85 brat? This is going to be my first rebuild, and after taking off the air cleaner housing, I know there is a problem with the choke as well. 



#10 jono

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

someone mentioned carby cleaner - always worth a blast when air box off and engine idling about 1500 -2000. Once you have done that and the backfire method after that, keeping carby cleaner job away at this time. Someone suggested elewhere the backfire method is to remember the firing order and which lead goes where FIRST, then rearrange a fwo HT leads to initiate a back fire pop under acceleration and can sometimes blow things clear inside the carby. Then, after checking plugs, leads, cap and rotor, I'd do a comp test. After that, I'd strip the carby and use whatever kit is still available



#11 ferox

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 10:10 PM

So after replacing the fuel filters it still wont idle. I am wondering: what do people think is the best rebuild kit out there for a hitachi carb in an 85 brat? This is going to be my first rebuild, and after taking off the air cleaner housing, I know there is a problem with the choke as well. 

 

I get the Beck Arnley rebuild kits at Autozone because they come with self-tapping screws to replace the rivets in the choke housing.  It's a good kit in general too.  You might want to order a kit for an '84, or they could mistakenly give you a rebuild kit for an '85 ea82 Hitachi.



#12 tdodge41

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 03:12 PM

I get the Beck Arnley rebuild kits at Autozone because they come with self-tapping screws to replace the rivets in the choke housing.  It's a good kit in general too.  You might want to order a kit for an '84, or they could mistakenly give you a rebuild kit for an '85 ea82 Hitachi.

 

ferox: Wondering if this kit on rockauto is the same one you are talking about. I did a search on autozone but didnt see a BA kit. Only found one on rockauto. 

 

http://www.rockauto....1517&cc=1267725



#13 ferox

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 10:15 PM

My mistake.  It's a GP Sorenson that I get at Autozone.

 

http://www.autozone...._/N-ikfqjZ8vd1z

 

The kit that is pictured on the Autozone website shows rivets instead of self-tapping screws, but I have always received the self-tappers.  The Beck Arnley at Rockauto is a good kit as well.  It shows rivets, but you might get self-tappers.  The rivets will work and you can always get your own screws, so it's no big deal either way...more of a convenience really.  Both kits are good.  I am going to order a kit tonight, so I will report back what I get in the box.



#14 tdodge41

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 09:35 AM

My mistake.  It's a GP Sorenson that I get at Autozone.

 

http://www.autozone...._/N-ikfqjZ8vd1z

 

The kit that is pictured on the Autozone website shows rivets instead of self-tapping screws, but I have always received the self-tappers.  The Beck Arnley at Rockauto is a good kit as well.  It shows rivets, but you might get self-tappers.  The rivets will work and you can always get your own screws, so it's no big deal either way...more of a convenience really.  Both kits are good.  I am going to order a kit tonight, so I will report back what I get in the box.

 

Thanks a lot ferox! Sounds great, getting the kit is going to be the first half of the battle. Then I actually have to venture down the road to rebuilding... 



#15 ferox

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 03:31 PM

My mistake.  It's a GP Sorenson that I get at Autozone.

 

http://www.autozone...._/N-ikfqjZ8vd1z

 

The kit that is pictured on the Autozone website shows rivets instead of self-tapping screws, but I have always received the self-tappers.  The Beck Arnley at Rockauto is a good kit as well.  It shows rivets, but you might get self-tappers.  The rivets will work and you can always get your own screws, so it's no big deal either way...more of a convenience really.  Both kits are good.  I am going to order a kit tonight, so I will report back what I get in the box.

 

Rivets



#16 tdodge41

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:51 PM

That's a bummer about the rivets. Does that mean you need a rivet press or something to do the carb work?

#17 ferox

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:28 AM

No, I already have the screws for the choke housing from past rebuilds.  You have to drill the rivets out of the choke housing to take it apart.  Once you have screws instead of rivets you can open and close the choke housing at will without having to drill out the rivets and replace them each time.  What it means is that you are going to have to get your own screws separately if you want to do that for your rebuild.  Of course there is always the possibility that the Beck Arnley kit will have screws even though they aren't pictured.



#18 tdodge41

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:54 AM

Thanks for all the info. Any chance you know what size screw to get and how many of em might be needed? If it's cheap enough I might as well do it just incase. I plan on getting the autozone kit.

#19 ferox

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:21 PM

You need two.  I don't know the size, but you could take one of the rivets to the hardware store to compare size.






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