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Brat Electrical Q's

battery ignition coil

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17 replies to this topic

#1 brat69

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 11:34 PM

Posted this over at nasioc but haven't had any help yet so I figured if anyone could help me out here.

 

Hello there!  I just picked up a brat that needs a little work.  Supposedly it ran last year so I'm hoping it won't take much to get it going.

Its a 1981 1.8 AWD.  He said it needed a new coil so I got one and put it in. When I put the battery in the blinkers were going off and when I went to turn the flashers off the horn went off and there were some sparks coming from the steering wheel.  

There are also a lot of things missing and wiring ghouls unknown to be.

Here are some pictures of the my wiring woes.  I have a Haynes manual but I can't really decipher it.  I have yet to find a colored wire diagram, which I think would be more helpful.



This large blue wire is grounded to the frame and has a male connector.  I have no idea where it goes.  The mostly black wire is spliced into another black wire that goes into the blue connector.  Any ideas of where it goes and what it does?



I'm not sure if both of these are female connections, I know one of them is for sure but the other may just be packed with dirt.  They lead back into the firewall.  I also have no idea what they connect to.  



The only idea I have about the blue female connection is that it may plug into this unit that is mounted on the strut tower because there is a male lead but that entire unit is grounded to the frame.  Also, what are these boxes?




This metal plate was causing the sparks to go off,  I'm assuming that it is a switch for the horn.  I have no idea how it is supposed to be correctly mounted.  I have checked my Haynes manual and it doesn't have an exploded view of the steering rack.



Here is the beautiful fuse orifice.  Is the circled one a fusible link? (PO said that the car wasn't getting spark and guessed it was either the coil, fusible link, or regulator).  The green fuse is melted but not blown.  Does anyone have a list of what the fuses are for?



#2 brat69

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 11:35 PM



I decided to post a picture of the coil too to make sure I have it  connected correctly.  The wires on the left lead to the distributor and  the ones on the right go to the positive battery terminal.  I also think  the next to wires may have to connect to the coil but I figured I would  get help before I fry myself.



The green wire has the loop connector which makes me think that it  connects to the coil but it is spliced into the blue/white line that  goes into the blue/clear connector which goes to the left relay.  



I also think this black wire that is grounded to the frame might connect  to the coil.  It has this weird bulky thing inline.  I'm also worried  that if i connect it to the coil with it being grounded that it would  fry the coil.  



The insulation on this yellow wire is grounded on the engine,  I forget  where it goes but can get a picture tomorrow but the insulation is  warped/burned,  I believe this is caused by arcing.



I have no idea what this little wire is that is coming off of the positive battery terminal.  



Does anyone know what wires are supposed to go to where?  I'm not sure if they are connected correctly



This is what the ignition wire splices look like from the bottom.


Any information, help, and suggestion is greatly appreciated.  I'll be  getting my multimeter and circuit tester soon so I conduct a few tests.   

Is there a way I could make a new wiring harness to just start the starter circuit?



#3 rdweninger

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 02:06 PM

What?  Nobody else wants to field this question?

  First of all, what you have here is a complete mess.    If it were mine, I would unhook everything from it's power source... ie., battery. 

Then start from scratch.   Hook up one circuit at a time.   Be prepared to install new fuseable links, new ignition switch, maybe a fuse block, several relays and such.   By the time you get this Brat fixed... you will be an expert on Subaru Brat wiring.   Or maybe your dash will look like the cockpit of a fighter jet... with independent switchs/fuses for all new circuits.

  Or... drop it off at Shawn's shop in Denver... he'll fix it.    Ha!   Sorry Shawn.

  Best of luck to you... buy a multimeter and 12v test light today.



#4 jono

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 05:23 PM

I don't wanna sound harsh , but - little wonder no help offered. If you have non factory wiring and don't know where it goes or what it does you have fat chance of anyone else being able to tell from a photo collection. You neeed to follow those non factory wires with dodgy looking connectors to see where they go. Agree with above ++! Wires go nowhere, mark, catalogue and remove.

 

That metal box with blue factory round multi connector has to be mounted in some way to the car until skyhooks become in wider use, doesn;t mean the workings of the electrics inside are earthed to the body by those mounting bolts. Not seen one of those on 84 model, nor have i seen a fuse box with glass fuses xcept on older Japanese models.

 

1981 and EA81 - is it same as 83 and 84 EA81 series bodies, not seen that early with factory elec ign dizzy, but yellow wire of coil is at neg post anyway.

 

I love how someone goes to sell a car, claims just needs new coil - wouldn't it sell easier and better if they just got it what it needed ?

 

That yellow wire that you say earths at front of engine block ...got a red tracer colour ? An insulator sheath that was likely clear when new, gone yellow with age ? That looks like it is the oil pressure switch wire  for the oil warning light in the dash. If it is earthed and everything else is connec ted correctly should get a red light on dash with ignition or engine on. It should be connected to an oil pressure light sender unit on the oil pump below crank pulley. Fit a new switch for reliability.


Edited by jono, 13 June 2014 - 05:27 PM.


#5 Gloyale

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 10:14 PM

  First of all, what you have here is a complete mess.    If it were mine, I would unhook everything from it's power source... ie., battery. 

Then start from scratch.   Hook up one circuit at a time.  

 

 

  Best of luck to you... buy a multimeter and 12v test light today.

 

 

+1

 

If you were in Oregon I would say bring it by.

 

It really has just been screwed in the engine bay....and a bit in the interior....I'll bet it could be sorte pretty easy but gotta be by an expert....that's been chopped up too much propbably just to use an external regulator....Looks worse than it is..

 

BW wire at the coil will be hot and yellow is Tach.....theres; a start.


Edited by Gloyale, 13 June 2014 - 10:17 PM.


#6 brat69

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:12 AM

rdweninger, i wish the car was in denver then it might be a little easier to get some help, since theres a guy down the street that has one. I'm in South Dakota helping out and got it for a deal so I figured I try it out.  I may have bitten off more I can chew.  I just got my multimeter back and I'm still learning how to use it.  I also picked up a test light for a dollar today. 

 

Jono, so I connected the wires from the distributor to the coil wrong?  I'll take a look at what might be the oil warning light tomorrow when its light out.  I posted a picture of it because it was burned a bit.  I had the insulation on my motorcycle do that when the tach cable grouned on the engine and fried/boiled an insulated wire.

 

Does anyone know if is some sort of exploded view/microfiche of the brat(like this http://www.partzilla...ETOR/parts.html)?   I want to know what that ring around the steering column is and how it is supposed to be mounted.  I guess I better just take it apart to see if some screw fell out or something. 



#7 turbosubarubrat

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 12:48 AM

Looking at my fsm the bigger metal box above the coil is the voltage regulator and the smaller one next to it is your ignition control unit.



#8 brat69

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 01:10 AM

Thank you turbo. Can you tell me what is hooked up to your coil? Looking at the Haynes manual I'm seeing ignition control unit, noise suppressor, and fuse box via a 15a.


Also anyone know what "NCA" means in the Haynes manual? It shows two wires leading from the ICU to the distributor via two NCA wires.

#9 TomRhere

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:27 AM

NCA = They don't know what color the wire(s) are.

 

Got to agree with GLoyale, what a mess.



#10 ironworkerboomer

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:22 AM

UGG Why do PO hack and slash like they do. :mad:  Mine was at least done by a determined rodent so no rerouting and such. Stick with it or start searching for a doner harness. I was thinking about a painless wiring kit for another project. I've used then in jeeps in the past. But I wasn't  going to use the stock gauges for that one.



#11 naru

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 01:40 PM

Thank you turbo. Can you tell me what is hooked up to your coil? Looking at the Haynes manual I'm seeing ignition control unit, noise suppressor, and fuse box via a 15a.


Also anyone know what "NCA" means in the Haynes manual? It shows two wires leading from the ICU to the distributor via two NCA wires.

 

I think you might be looking at the wrong diagram.

81s have the ICU mounted inside the disty.

Pre 81 electronic distys mount the ICUs externally,wires to disty are white and pink,AFAIK.



#12 brat69

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:36 PM

Naru, this is the diagram I was looking at.

imagejpg1.jpg

#13 naru

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 09:49 AM

Naru, this is the diagram I was looking at.

imagejpg1.jpg

 

That diagram is mislabeled.

It shows an externally mounted ICU as used  on pre 81s and an externally mounted voltage regulator as used pre 82.

 

81s are unique in having in having internally mounted ICUs combined w/an external VR.

You would do yourself a favour to find a 1981 wiring diagram.

Here is one http://www.ebay.com/...r#ht_1437wt_670

Maybe you can find a cheaper one w/a want ad in the classifieds or photocopy one at the local dealer if you are lucky.

 

Your ICU will be wired like the "full transistor ignitor" in the 82-3 dagram here

http://www.autozone....900c15280065bf4

I believe thier 81 diagram is incorrect



#14 jono

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 05:49 PM

oh, don't confuse the yellow wire of the oil warning light switch with yellow of the ignition side of things at coil. Coloured traces help separate these ID issues, and would say the black and yellow paired wires at coil in their own sheath below together.

 

The oil pressure switch wire, might be yellow with red trace, in its own sleeve that goes adrk with age, heat (or worse - I set fire to mine - engine running as I sprayed degreaser, then had fast drive to car wash who did not approve other degreasers, bonnet up, fire burnt itself out, dizy cap reshaped self but still worked, wires singed) oil pressure switch and eng temp switch are usually in a shared loom with any wires for carby



#15 brat69

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 06:36 PM

Okay so I've made some progress. The blue line from the fire wall goes to the voltage regulator and the noise suppressor contexts to the positive of the coil.

When I plug the battery in and try to start it I hear a click sound. I don't know if that is the starter relay or what but after it does that the car has no power and it have to unconnected and re connect the battery to get it to work.

I'm going to charge the battery to see if that helps, my only other thought is that the ignition circuit is shorting out some where. That or the ignition switch is wired up wrong.


Help please!

Edit: does any one know how the ignition switch is supposed to be wired? I'm guessing the black/yellow wire go to the "s" on the back of the key switch (this line goes to the starter) and the other three I'm not sure. The rest of the letters on the back of the switch are b, a, ig, and r. I believe b is for battery and am assuming it is the black line.

Edited by brat69, 19 June 2014 - 07:18 PM.


#16 brat69

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 11:47 PM

BW wire at the coil will be hot and yellow is Tach.....theres; a start.

BW wire from the distributor is supposed to be hot, as in connecting to the positive(+) on the coil? Do I have the wires for the distributor switched around?

 

what do you mean by the yellow is the tach(not the yellow wire from the distributor but the one grounded on the engine)?

 

PO finally got back to me after two weeks. Told me that the green wire connects to the hot side of the coil and thinks that the blue wire(thats grounded to the frame/connected to the round connecter) goes to the fan. 



#17 brat69

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 02:51 PM

I got it to crank over! I don't know if I'm not getting fuel or spark so hopefully it'll be running soon!

#18 natetheskate138

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 06:15 PM

Hi Brat69.  I've got a 1983 Brat.  A few months ago my car wouldn't start(just clicking from the relay) so I inspected the connection and noticed there's a black/yellow wire that runs from my ignition switch to a connector and then continues on under the stearing wheel column.  This wire had gotten loose so I reconnected it and it started.  Just last week the same the same thing happened so I cleaned up the connection but it still won't start.  Did you ever get a response from your question about the codes on the back of the ignition switch or were you able to figure that out?   Thanks.







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