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camber and speedo questions


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17 replies to this topic

#1 northguy

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Posted 08 May 2004 - 08:27 PM

1. I just had the front end aligned after putting the lift kit on and the guy says the left side is at 2.50 +camber and the lewft side is at 2.97+camber. He says the number should be 1.50+camber for both, but that was the best he could do with the way the struts are installed (with the kit extensions). Is this guy all messed up? If not, can I change it someway, or am I going to just have to live with bad tire wear patterns?

2. With the inrreased tire size, the Miata website says I am now travelling about 10% faster than the speedo says. Is that the same with the odometer reading also? Am I actually going about 10% farther than the odometer reads? I thought the speedo ran off of a gear in the transmission (and I assume the odometer is relative to the speedo). Please advise-I'd be tickled to believe I'm getting more miles to the gallon.

#2 northguy

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 11:35 AM

Don't tell me I stumped the experts on these two questions :lol:

#3 subusolo2nut

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 11:58 AM

OK--I normally drop cars instead of lifting them, but the rules are still the same--move the upper mounts inboard moves toward negative--outboard moves toward positive--I bet you just bolted the struts back into the stock location. What you would need to do is change the strut upper mounting point inward to decrease the amount of positive camber--I'm sure that the guys that are lifting have a couple of ways to do this---

As for the speedo question--the answer is yes--your speedo & odo will be wrong--you can get a reducer that will change the cable rpm down the correct amount if you want or live with it--you sure won't get tickets that way!!:)

#4 northguy

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 12:55 PM

1. Thanks for the suggestions. What I think I'm hearing is that I'll have to elongate the holes in the tops of the strut towers to guess at the correct location for the correct camber. I can play around with that; I just don't want to weaken that area.

2. Do you have any clue wherea guy could find such a reducer? Since I'm going to install a 5 spd tranny, I might as well do it then. Cost? Thanks.

#5 subusolo2nut

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 06:36 PM

The easy (!) way is to make a adjustable cross bar--two plates that "slide" in & out on the top of the towers (slot the towers & drill holes exact in the plates)--then make a cross bar to join them (flanges welded on the plates to bolt a rod-end or heim joint to--one right thread--one left thread & tap a tube right & left--allows a adjustable link between the towers)--loosen one tower & adjust the camber--tighten & goto the other--do same--tighten all after--also makes the car MUCH stiffer up front--towers are "boxed" with this way:)

As to the reducer--I know a speedo shop in Portland,OR that will do them--They make a two-piece speedo cable & insert the box where-ever you want--As to the cost-Shrug--I don't know--You might be able to find a shop closer to you--time to go explorin':)

#6 northguy

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 08:15 PM

Thanks for the info. There is an idea to put in along with lift kit install instructions. And the hunt is on for the speedo correction connection. Thanks again.

#7 MorganM

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 09:14 PM

1) Is this a BYB lift? The BYB lift strut extensions are built to correct the issue with camber; ensure they are installed on the correct side and facing the correct direction.

2) The odometer is off as well. The whole device is off by 10% since it's all ran off that one cable from the tranny.

#8 northguy

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 09:55 PM

I took great pains to ensure the strut extensions were installed correctly. I'm wondering if the mechanic who did the alignment knows $#*% from shinola on his camber numbers. I thought the odometer was probably the same as the speedo. Thanks.

#9 VaporTrail

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 10:27 PM

takea look at this diagram. on the 4/3 kit, I removed the metal in the red area with a grinder. this allows the strut tower bolts to slide all the way inward as much as possible.

http://www.ultimates...s/strutlift.jpg

you also need to be sure you do the proper amount of beating on the inner strut towers to allow the spring to move in as well.

if you oval out the strut tower mount holes, you will also need to beat the inner fender enough to make sure the spring isn't rubbing...

do you have your springs adjusted up as well?

#10 subusolo2nut

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 10:50 PM

Hey NorthGuy--See--It just takes time for us crazies to sit at the computer--after-all, its more fun to be out doin' what you & your Subie want on a weekend:grin:

#11 HillbillyLes

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Posted 09 May 2004 - 11:39 PM

Yes,the Ozified and BYB lifts do have as much camber correction built in as possible since when lifting the car, the camber goes way positive. Mine, also (86 EA-82 wagon) has a slight positive camber and considerably more noticable if I adjust the struts all the way up. There are quite a few of us running them, out there (though maybe not mostly on the highway like me) and I think if it were a major issue then PK or BYB and the guys from Oz who engineered them would have done something different.

Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do to get more neg. camber because when lifted, the automatic built in camber correction puts the strut as close to the inside strut tube wall as physically possible without doing major reconstruction to enlarge the strut tube on the car. If one were to be so motivated, they could split the tube and reform it to an oval running laterally so the strut top could be moved in further but I don't know that the re-engineering time and effort would be very cost effective in the long run.

I have had mine on for about 2 years. I (right now) am still running the 13" wagon wheels with 185/80-13's and drive about 15,000-20,000 miles per year on the highway in the car. I can't say that mine has had any exceptional tire wear due to the positive camber, though when I lift the front struts all the way to level the car it does seem like I start to get a little outside tread wear, but nothing obnoxious. I'm on my second set of tires in about 50,000 mi. My first set were lug type snow tread tires so any wear at all on the edge really stood out and the compound wasn't optimum for high mileage highway driving (they discontinued them in 13's). The current set are highway type tread and edge wear is negligible after 10-12,000 miles. As far as handling due to pos camber, I can't tell much, if any, difference post-stock that can't be explained rather by the higher ctr. of gravity than positive camber.

It would be nice to be able to get the camber down to at least 0 deg when lifted all the way cause it sure looks silly when I adjust it up and the tires are leaning out at the top going down the highway.:banghead:

I'm getting ready to put some 205/75-15's on it. I'm curious to see how the extra height will affect the look (positive camber)....with a taller tire, it may stand out less.(I hope).

HbL

#12 HillbillyLes

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Posted 10 May 2004 - 12:01 AM

Hey, Mick (McBrat)...
I was in the process of writing and editing my post...I hate this old keyboard with sticking keys...
After I finally got my post up, I went back and read what you've done...
I presume that is the adapter you ground the inside edge from. Looks like that might help a little but I don't know, on my EA-82, how much hammer-modification I can do to make more spring room. I may try it when I put the 15's on.

Good idea ... and fairly simple!

Hoo-Yah!!

Les

#13 VaporTrail

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Posted 10 May 2004 - 01:39 AM

the ones I modified are on my 82 Brat, and even with the RX springs, and the suspension cranked all the way up, my front tires look perfectly straight up and down. my rears have more pos+ camber because of the torsion bar tweak... :)

I won't be able to easily identify if I'm wearing the outside edges, since they were already worn from being on MtnGrizzly before...... (it didn't have the modified strut tower)

#14 northguy

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Posted 10 May 2004 - 01:40 AM

Mick and Hillbilly, thanks. I haven't done any griding, but I pounded the snotout of the inner fender wall to alow forthe inward movement of the strut. Got some more ideas now. Thanks again.

#15 VaporTrail

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Posted 10 May 2004 - 01:42 AM

before I put the strut blocks on, I kept testing them in the mounts to see where it was hitting, then grind that area... kept going until it was the bolts that were stopping inward progress.

#16 MorganM

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Posted 10 May 2004 - 08:24 AM

I did not really notice my strut assembly hitting the unibody when I installed my fronts. This was an EA82 Gl wagon with BYB 3" lift. On the other hand I didnt really look that close so it could be. I should check that out...

When I look at my tires from the front, there is lots of toe-in. That's negative camber right?

#17 VaporTrail

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Posted 10 May 2004 - 09:29 AM

looking at the front of the vehicle from in front of it....

Pos Camber = \ /
Neg Camber = / \

Looking at the wheels from above the vehicle, front of vehicle pointed towards you
(think pidgeon toed, or walking like a duck :) )

Toe In = \ /
Toe Out = / \

#18 MorganM

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Posted 10 May 2004 - 09:51 AM

Okay so I have lots of positive camber going on. Would that cuase a lot of vibration in the rear end ?

I cant decide if all vibrating in the rear is my driveshaft (which I can tell through the floor boards is slightly off) or if its from my suspension and tires.




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