Pgh_Scoob Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 Ok so I replaced front o2 with a BOSCH wire in one... After replacing and taking off battery cables for fuel trims to reset and starting up it ran ok for a little while but seemed to have a rougher idle especially when in gear..... After a bit of driving the light came back on!!!!! Im not sure its the same code but figuring it is... but now with the light on it seems to run a little better... What the heck is going on???? I am getting really frustrated... Could the timing have jumped a tooth or if replaced off a tooth and be causing this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Could the timing have jumped a tooth or if replaced off a tooth and be causing this??? yes, it could very well be - worth checking it to make sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 OK because the timing cover tabs are broken... someone has been in there before If it is off, is there some scan tool data I should check for at all or it is just physically removing the cover and checking all of the marks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 or it is just physically removing the cover and checking all of the marks? this. just remove the cam covers on each side. rotate the engine by hand until you can see the timing marks . if they match, the cams are good . the crank could be off but that is much less likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 Except to remove passenger side cover you have to pull the crank pulley... Correct any tine I've done a timing belt that's the only way I've seen them come off unless I'm missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 you must be missing something - the cam covers should come off just fine without removing the crank pulley - they are supposed to be 3 pieces just for this kind of inspection 3 bolts each hold the outer covers in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Except to remove passenger side cover you have to pull the crank pulley.. this is true for 00 - 04 cars. but you can remove the drive side cover , and open the inspection port on the passenger side cover. the cam covers should come off just fine without removing the crank pulley - they are supposed to be 3 pieces just for this kind of inspection this is true for 90 - 99 cars. this thread happens to be about a 96 ej22 engine with the tree piece timing covers . Edited July 20, 2014 by johnceggleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 ok great.. I forgot about the hole to see the cam marks... I will definitely give it a look tomorrow. Oh I also just remembered that while checking my scan tool data pids after replacing the front o2 I was getting signals for everything but it would intermittently cut out or all of my info would go to zero..... Not sure if it was just switching from open loop to closed loop and ignoring things or what.... even when in open loop the ECM should only ignore O2 inputs... correct??? And could this also be a possibility for a jumped timing belt? Thanks Again for all of the help... I am at my wits end with this thing and really just want it resolved... The light doesnt even bother me... Its the random no start and terrible fuel mileage that has me concerned. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Losing signals could either be a loose connection at the DLC or just a firmware glitch in your scanner. If the ECU loses sensor signals there will be misfires or the engine will just stall. 96 EJ22 has three timing covers. The end covers are removeable without removing the crank pulley. I would expect there to be misfires or other problems if the timing is off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yes it is a three piece cover... I've only done newer ones with the two piece... So I checked my timing marks and it does look to be off a tooth with setting the crank to 0 on the timing over scale... That's where it should be set to. Right? And I was wondering about running problems misses if it was off as well but if it's jumped ahead a tooth in theory the intake valve would be staying open that little bit longer leaning out the ratio.... Please correct me if I'm wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Oh I also did a compression test and all readings were 178-182 across all 4. So I'm assuming I don't have an lower internal issue. I also swapped out the plugs while in there and man did they look nasty and the gap was way over but that wouldn't set this code would it. I would suspect misfire codes if anything. Yet again please correct me if my thinking is completely wrong/off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Old plugs won't help anything, that's for sure. The timing mark onnthe crank pulley can only be trusted so much. It's a two peice pulley and the outside section can slip. Also, the pulley will like the crank up at TDC, which is useful for adjusting valves, but these are not timed at TDC. The crank timing sprocket has a separate mark for timing which puts the crank at half stroke. Line up the dash marks on the front edge of the cam sprockets with the notches in the covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Line up the dash marks on the front edge of the cam sprockets with the notches in the covers. this ^ actually, line up one, and see where the other one falls - if timing is on, it should be lined up correctly - as johnceggleston said here... just remove the cam covers on each side. rotate the engine by hand until you can see the timing marks . if they match, the cams are good . the crank could be off, but that is much less likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Ok I didnt get a chance to pop them off earlier but most likely going to throw a timing belt on it because it looked nasty... plus the cam seals are leaking. But I will double check the marks before hand... thanks for the tips. So if the timing is on what could this possibly be??? Would a fuel pump potentially be a suspect??? Even though every time Ive tested it there were no signs of failure.. Or are there any reports about the ECU going bad??? Anyway to test?? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 THE LIGHT WENT OUT ON ITS OWN!!!!!! I had a few errands to run today and after my second stop I got back in my car and started it up... Light was off. I even shut my car off to make sure the light was working KOEO... Which it was. I am going to check my Fuel trims tomorrow to verify that everything is working... For now. I also need to wait to see where my fuel mileage is at. I have gone 125 miles and am at a little above quarter tank... which is not good but when I filled it up last I was at just about the same mark and only pumped 8.6 gallons... So after looking up capacity I theoretically was at half a tank... So as long as the car starts with this lower fuel level I will try to get to 200 miles at least and then see how much it actually takes to fill up... I really hope its just an inaccurate gauge.. if so are there any quick/cheap fixes for that??? Thanks Again for all of the help and continued input. Oh and if it was the plugs causing the code what was going on with them???? Just not completing the burn needed and allowing raw fuel into the cat for the downstream to pick up??? but still able to fire.. hence the no misfire codes??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Inaccurate guages are common. Sometimes a bottle of Techron helps clean the sender unit. Mostly you just learn to deal with it. My 95 hits the E after 240-250 miles and I drive it another 50 before I fill up. Still only takes about 10 gallons to fill it. I put 400 miles on the trip odo once and it only needed 12.5 gallons. The needle was pegged below E for a LONG time! It's FWD though. Possibly the plugs causing incomplete burn. O2 sensors don't read fuel. Just oxygen. If the AF mixture doesn't burn all the way (oxygen has to burn with the fuel) there's still a lot of oxygen in the exhaust which can cause a lean reading. I'm not sure if it would be enough to run fuel trims off by 20%, but it may be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Yeah I wouldn't think so either because of how bad the trims were but it could have been a combination of bad plugs and maybe the front o2 was going bad as well... Either way lights out and it hasn't not started on me... Yet I know my 96 impreza I had there was a wacky gauge in it. I would fill it up and the needle would swing from empty to full until about half tank and then would level out until 1/4 tank and just peg itself below E... That was fun getting used to that. So maybe it's the same situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 yup, wacky fuel gauges seem to be the norm with the older cars. My 90 would work from full to 3/4, then be dead until I got down to about 1/4 tank - sounds like the opposite of your old Impreza. I usually go by the trip meter - altho it does take a bit of guess work to determine just how far you can go until you get used to it. on the 90 I could easily get about 275 miles out of a tankful (14.5 gal tank) - the furthest I ever pushed it was to about 320 miles. Only ran that car out of gas once, and that was right after I got it - didnt know if the fuel gauge worked or not at the time... the 95 fuel gauge is iffy, and with a hole in the tank, I dont put more than $20-25 in at a time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 ahahah I had to do that with my 96 as well once the upper half of the tank rotted out.... It was rough figuring out how much fuel to put in and not see it running back out. I am afraid of running it low because 2 years ago I went through a jeep phase (glad that out of my system) but I ran out of gas numerous times... It was terrible.. Sometimes the light would come on and I would still have a few gallons but the rest of the time if the light was on I was out of gas and got like half a block and would die.. one time being in the middle of a huge intersection during rush hour traffic... Yeah people were Annoyed with me and using their hands to express themselves... On another note I still have an intermittent no start issue.... I charged my A/C and had my car running but after shutting it off and disconnecting the lines I tried to start it back up but it only cranked.... I went and smacked the access plate for the fuel pump and then it started right up..... Im assuming that my fuel pump is going bad... but I will replace it once it decides to stop working entirely... or until I can find a great deal on one. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 maybe check the wiring connector - make sure there isnt any corrosion or anything in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Yeah immediately what I thought but it all looks good... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 So the saga continues..... So earlier today I looked at my gas gauge it was almost on E... Plus the car seemed to be idling really rough while in gear.... So I think to myself I am running out of gas... Stopped and filled up but only put in 8.6 gallons yet again.... Then while driving to my shop engine light popped back on... I really have no idea what's going on now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 OK so after a few days of paying close attention and talking to some more people what i have noticed that might be a piece to this puzzle... First the light only comes on while the tank is full.. or almost full... When remove my gas cap there is an excessive release of pressure... My one coworker asked me about this and said that excessive pressure normally leads to a clog/blockage of some sore... I checked my filler neck vent tube... I believe is what its called.. because he said they were prone to clog but it was clear and the rubber hoses seems to be in good shape. Also smoke tested my all of my vacuum systems and EVAP along with my brake booster just in case there was a tear in the diaphragm causing a vacuum leak... Just marking things off the list of potential causes. But all of that checked fine.... So my question is.. Are there any know sensors/solenoids/valves that stick shut/stick open while pressurized by a full tank??? and once the tank gets low enough and pressure relieves they are able to close or open... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) does it seem to be pressure, or a vacuum when you open the tank? (if a vacuum is developing, that might starve the engine for fuel - maybe???) Also, even though you will get a CEL for a p0440 or similar code, you could try driving with the gas cap loose. Maybe the charcoal canister or it's drain is clogged up. Or the purge control valve inst;nt cycling. Edited July 28, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pgh_Scoob Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 It seems like pressure coming from the tank not vacuum and thought that as well with a clogged EVAP system possibly but everything seems to be operating properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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