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Rear AWD knuckle/Spindle compatability question


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23 replies to this topic

#1 SUBARU3

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:25 AM

  Can anyone tell me if these interchange?

 

 

1995 Impreza AWD NON ABS rear spindle. (Spindle, hub, the whole assembly)

 

to a

 

1995 Legacy AWD WITH ABS 

 

 

  I know the bearings, seals , hubs are the same, but the ABS issue I don't understand. I have not torn into one of these yet, but doesn't all the ABS stuff unbolt from the spindle, leaving the spindles the same between the cars? If not , can they be modified to interchange?

 

  Thanks! 



#2 Fairtax4me

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:36 AM

If you NEED the ABS you will need to find an ABS hub since the ABS parts can not be mounted to a non-ABS hub.
If you don't need ABS then either one will work. The ABS tone ring will not be in the way. The sensor can be unbolted and removed.

Watch out for drum vs disc brakes. The knuckles are not interchangable.
The caliper brackets may differ from Legacy to Impreza, but the knuckles are the same and the brackets will swap if needed.

#3 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:53 PM

Doesn't the ABS sensor just attach to the backing plate? Which could be swapped easily.


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 24 July 2014 - 01:54 PM.


#4 johnceggleston

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:19 PM

90 - 99 the abs sensor is mounted in machined hole in the spindle housing.

the tone ring is mounted on the back side of the hub flange,

basically it sits on what would be the ''heads'' of the lug studs / bolts.



#5 Fairtax4me

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:59 PM

Backing plate isn't as easy to swap as it sounds. Have to pull the hub out, or cut the plate.
The sensor does no good without the tone ring, which is bolted to the hub. And again, have to either pull the hub out of the knuckle which destroys the wheel bearing, or cut the tone ring which can cause an ABS light if done wrong.

#6 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:45 PM

Easy is always relative, swapping a backing plate is not a hard task when the OP is considering swapping the entire spindle assembly.

I don't see why it wouldn't if you swapped backing plate and hub. Please do correct me if I am wrong tho.



#7 johnceggleston

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:19 PM

Easy is always relative, swapping a backing plate is not a hard task
when the OP is considering swapping the entire spindle assembly.


I don't see why it wouldn't if you swapped backing plate and hub.

Please do correct me if I am wrong tho.

first,

the ABS sensor does NOT mount in the backing plate on a subaru.

at least not in the 90s.

neither does the tone ring.

it mounts in the spindle / hub assembly housing.

 

second,

it is more labor to swap the backing plate than it is to swap the spindle / hub assembly assembly.

at least it is on a 90s suabru.

so no advantage there .


Edited by johnceggleston, 24 July 2014 - 11:38 PM.


#8 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:21 PM

Please read what the OP is asking about, he never mentioned anything about front spindles.

 

Removing the hub is as easy as 2 caliper bolts, if the axle is already removed. And the backing plate is only 4 bolts.

He was specifically asking if the REAR spindles are interchangeable.. And the answer is YES.



#9 SUBARU3

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:23 PM

 Now I'm more confused, but I think you are saying the rear spindle on the AWD, with ABS, has a machined hole in the spindle itself. Thus the non ABS spindle will not work.

 

 Now if one is drum and one is disk brake...that is a problem too! I better stay tight and specific to avoid an issue.

 

 

 Thanks guys



#10 Fairtax4me

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:25 PM

Lets try to get the terminology straight.
Knuckle is what's bolted to the strut.
Wheel bearing is pressed into the knuckle.
The Hub (round part with the lug studs sticking out of it) is pressed into the center of the wheel bearing.
The axle sticks through the center of the hub.

There is no spindle. Spindles are for front wheel drive, and for front wheels on old RWD vehicles.


The question was about interchangeability of ABS hubs.
An ABS hub has 5 holes drilled in it for the ABS tone ring to bolt to. The ABS tone ring bolts to the back side of the hub (the side toward the knuckle).

A non-ABS hub doesn't have the holes drilled in it. The ABS tone ring can not be mounted to a non-ABS hub.

Physically they're the same dimensions. Either one fits in the same knuckle, whether its disc, drum, ABS or non. But if you need the ABS tone ring, you need the ABS hub with the holes in it for the tone ring to mount to.

#11 johnceggleston

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:36 PM

sorry about the spindle wording.

i use that term because that is what they are called on car-part.com.

you can find the part by using a different name,

but you find more of them by searching for a spndle.

 

i thought the term knuckle was only used for the fronts, because they hinged, turned.

 

but i don't know.



#12 Fairtax4me

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:10 AM

The term gets tossed around kinda loosely. Generally its fine to use, until there's a conversation like this, then it just gets confusing IMO.

There are many kinds of knuckles.
Steering knuckle, hub knuckle, spindle knuckle, busted knuckle...

#13 MilesFox

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:55 AM

The term gets tossed around kinda loosely. Generally its fine to use, until there's a conversation like this, then it just gets confusing IMO.

There are many kinds of knuckles.
Steering knuckle, hub knuckle, spindle knuckle, busted knuckle...

moose knuckle :)



#14 Fairtax4me

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:39 AM

I was thinking that, but I wasn't gonna go there! :D

#15 Gloyale

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:55 AM

Please read what the OP is asking about, he never mentioned anything about front spindles.

 

Removing the hub is as easy as 2 caliper bolts, if the axle is already removed. And the backing plate is only 4 bolts.

He was specifically asking if the REAR spindles are interchangeable.. And the answer is YES.

 

The "hub" is the part that hte wheel bolts to with the 5 studs.  It cannot be removed without a press or slidehammer.  The backing plate will not come off over the hub.

 

So basically one could use an ABS knuckle/hub assembly on a Non ABS car..........but not the other way round......to keep ABS.....you need ABS parts.

 

The only way to do it would be to swap the hub and backing plate.....which requires basically a wheel bearing job.....so why not just put new bearing into the existing ABS knuckle?



#16 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:51 PM

The "hub" is the part that hte wheel bolts to with the 5 studs.  It cannot be removed without a press or slidehammer.  The backing plate will not come off over the hub.

 

So basically one could use an ABS knuckle/hub assembly on a Non ABS car..........but not the other way round......to keep ABS.....you need ABS parts.

 

The only way to do it would be to swap the hub and backing plate.....which requires basically a wheel bearing job.....so why not just put new bearing into the existing ABS knuckle?

 

Thanks Gloyale for confirmation. I forgot that they are press fit, but knew for sure it could be done with the backing plate and hub swapped.

 

I have pulled a few rear hubs at PnP just by hammering out the axle, but was only wanting the backing plates for EA 5 lug. And it likely destroyed the bearings. I only remembered the ABS bung because I had to remove it with a dremel.
 



#17 SUBARU3

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:14 PM

   OK...I am talking about the knuckle and bearing assembly. The part that bolts to the strut. I realize that the "hub" is different between an ABS and a non-ABS setup.

 

 I'm talking about the knuckle. Will the main knuckle interchange between cars, both with and without ABS and between disk and drums brakes? The "knuckle" will have a new bearing, seals and correct hub/backing plate/disk brake parts installed. So the question is, will a stripped down, rear, AWD knuckle interchange and be able to be "configured" correctly for these years/models of Subys? 

 

  Yes, the terminology get's confusing!  :)

 

Todd



#18 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 07:23 PM

If you swap the backing plate then yes.. But as gloyale mentioned, It will require a bearing job as the hub/bearing is press fit.

 

It is the backing plate( #2 ) that holds the ABS bung.

 

 

14774d1251512250-rear-wheel-bearing-repl

 

 



#19 johnceggleston

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:59 AM

It is the backing plate( #2 ) that holds the ABS bung.

 

i thought the sensor went into a hole in the knuckle housing, the part the bearing is pressed into,

the part in the above pic that does not have a number, between 10 and 7.

 

i guess the sensor would also have to go through the backing plate,

but i thought the housing had a hole as well,

almost positive.

 

am i remembering this wrong?

 

http://opposedforces...illustration_5/

 

.


Edited by johnceggleston, 26 July 2014 - 09:00 AM.


#20 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:28 AM

i thought the sensor went into a hole in the knuckle housing, the part the bearing is pressed into,

the part in the above pic that does not have a number, between 10 and 7.

 

i guess the sensor would also have to go through the backing plate,

but i thought the housing had a hole as well,

almost positive.

 

am i remembering this wrong?

 

http://opposedforces...illustration_5/

 

.

 

Only the fronts are as you describe afaik.


Edited by Ibreakstuff, 26 July 2014 - 11:32 AM.


#21 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:39 AM

Examples... First 2 are front spindles, early and late (note the ABS bung positions). The 3rd is a rear, which shows the bung on the backing plate...

frontearly.jpg

frontlate.jpg

rear.jpg



#22 Fairtax4me

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:56 AM

I'm talking about the knuckle. Will the main knuckle interchange between cars, both with and without ABS and between disk and drums brakes? The "knuckle" will have a new bearing, seals and correct hub/backing plate/disk brake parts installed. So the question is, will a stripped down, rear, AWD knuckle interchange and be able to be "configured" correctly for these years/models of Subys?


I can't guarantee it, but as far as I know the knuckle itself is the same. It would be a good idea to try to get a knuckle with the same setup as yours (disc/drum, ABS/non) just in case there is a difference.

#23 SUBARU3

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:38 PM

  I hunted hard today, and did fine the parts manuals for both the cars. (Legacy and Impreza)  The part #s for the bare knuckle is the same, for both cars. (irrelevant of ABS, disk or drum rear brakes). You build up/configure the knuckle to fit your needs I guess. Get all your parts and get it pressed together the way you need it.

 

  I learned something!  Thanks guys!

 

 Todd



#24 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:25 PM

I love it when a thread full of debate ends with confirmation and resolution.






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