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EA81 Tick...


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18 replies to this topic

#1 tundrabrat

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:40 AM

I've seen EA82 threads regarding the Tick Of Death but I haven't found any specifically focused to the EA81.

 

I have a freshly built EA81 (with Hydro Lifters) with a rebuilt oil pump and a torque grind on the cam.  I have what looks to be great oil pressure however I have a tick that always seems to be there though it changes intensity.

 

I was careful to check specs while of rods and bearings during the build and I have adjusted the valves and they seem to be well seated.

 

I'm just over 1,200 miles on the rebuild and did the final head re-torque fresh oil change with 10-30w this weekend.

 

I have seen quite a bit about replacing the oil pump gasket or doing a rebuild on the oil pump... my question is if the pressure is good, what does this accomplish?

 

Do I need to replace the lifters... would a torque grind cam require new lifters?  If one or more lifters were bad wouldn't there be some play?

 

Sorry for all the questions but I would prefer to fix this right and have an understanding of the reasoning behind the repair instead of throwing heavy oil in  (15-40 etc) and masking the problem.

 

Thanks again of time!     


Edited by tundrabrat, 04 August 2014 - 03:41 AM.


#2 MilesFox

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:04 AM

Try 0w40 oil as it is still a 40 wt oil, but flows better when cold. For the same amount of oil pressure, you have more volume of flow. Factory fil would have been 10w40. Perhaps a 5w40 would be appropriate.

 

The lifters probably just need to be run and flushed out with oil pressure. 

 

Replacing the oil pump seal accopmplishes correcting the cavitation of the oil pump seal which causes aeration of the oil. When you take it apart, one of the mickey mouse ears on the seal will likely be a pac man. Yes, this is proper nomenclature for these things.



#3 Crazyeights

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:34 AM

The "Torque Grind" cam could be the key here. They are NOISY! So noisy in fact that they are probably beating the bottoms of your lifters in as we speak.  They may also FAIL (eat lobes) if you do not add Zinc to the oil (ask me how I know). It was a little hard for me to accept that my brand new Hi-Perf built EA81 was actually supposed to sound like that. My cam failed at about 5,000 miles after MANY frustrated attempts at re-adjusting them. I have tried both Solid and Hydro "Torque Grinds" with similar results. I sincerely hope that you have better luck with yours. Lastly I would NOT use "Full Synthetic" oil with re-grind cams due to the above concerns.

 

I would use an un-modified EA81 Hydro cam with a set of lifters dressed up by Mizpah in MN (USA) if you want a proper sounding re-build. Search for the thread "Another Noisy EA81" to see the troubles I had trying to quiet mine before I finally gave up.


Edited by Crazyeights, 05 August 2014 - 12:30 PM.


#4 tundrabrat

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:08 AM

Sounds like I created my own luck on this one.

I haven't used a zinc additive before, what am I looking for when I go to buy. In addition to protecting the internals, will this assist with the noise.

In regards to the heavier oil, I've been running 10-30w from what I've read... But you say 10-40 is factory, is that the consensus from other users?

Sounds like I'll start putting together another short block in the mean time sans the torque grind.

Thanks for the assist.

Edited by tundrabrat, 04 August 2014 - 11:11 AM.


#5 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:18 AM

Put diesel grade oil in it. You haven't worn the cam and the followers into each other, so there is excess friction occurring between them, creating sound.

The diesel grade oil still has all of the good minerals in it that conventional car engine oil has had taken out.

A 10w30 is your best bet to start with (Rotella 10w30 seems to be pretty easy to find) and let that run for a while.

Did you run any break in oil in it? If you didn't, I'd be worried about your cam flattening out prematurely.

You must have that zinc content to harden and coat that follower/lifter and cam impact surface.

 

Twitch



#6 tundrabrat

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 11:21 AM

I've used Rotella T on my turbo cars... Does it have the zinc in it or do I need an additive?

Thanks

Edited by tundrabrat, 04 August 2014 - 11:22 AM.


#7 MilesFox

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:30 PM

on the zinc spectrum, mobil 0w40 has 1100/1000, mobil delvac super 1200, high mileage 10w30 and 10w40 range from 800 to 1000. the lowest contents were in 5w20 and 5w30 grades. These numbers are approximate. In general, the 40 wt oils have the highst zddp numbers. "full synthetic' doesn't matter as the 40 wts have the proper metal content. the 5 and 0w weights are easier to blend with synthetic. 



#8 ferox

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:58 PM

I've used this stuff with good results.  

 

http://www.stp.com/p.../oil-treatment/

 

My solid lifter ea81 doesn't have a tick, but it runs real quiet and smooth with the STP treatment.  I don't use it all the time, mostly on road trips.  It's cheap and readily available too.



#9 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:01 AM

Running a diesel spec oil as well as a zinc additive should be sufficient to seat your cam into the followers in 2 or 3 oil changes.

Flat tappets like friction reducers, such as Molybdenum and Zinc.

So the longer you run oils with those minerals in them, the better your flat tappet engine will fare.

 

Twitch



#10 tundrabrat

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:33 AM

Thanks all. I'll get on this oil and zinc regiment right away.

Edited by tundrabrat, 05 August 2014 - 02:34 AM.


#11 jono

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:13 AM

I have heard of some oils advertised here down under as being recommended for classics , the old tappet engines with pushrods is probably how they are best classified. Valvoline do a XLD 20W50 Classic i think ?

Can you actually buy zinc additive or gotta squeeze a bit from your sunscreen ?



#12 jono

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:23 AM

Crazyeights, took you up on that search term - brought me right back here !!

 

I can almost imagine how bad it was to have your hi performance EA81 do that. Am curious what was done to these engines of yours that failed if you can manage it - otherwise, pretend we are your therapists perhaps?

 

Curious to know what sort of duration is on these performo torque grinds. Each of mine were 16/56 56/16 .0235" lift the best all rounder torquie baby solid, the other was, still is 20/60 60/20  0.225" lift. Both cams got a spotty looking coating of something called luberite to assist with bedding in to the reground solids

 

Ignore Miles comment on mickey mouse ear, that is on EA82 oil pump



#13 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:19 PM

... if you do not add Zinc to the oil ...

 

Yes, I agree...

 

I use in my Wife's car, 15W~40 DELO 400 Motor Oil, which is a Heavy Duty Diesel Motor Oil made by Chevron, that also complies with the Best "SM" Gasoline Motor oil Requirements, and as far as I know, it also includes Zinc already mixed in their formula.

 

~► http://www.bobistheo...&Number=1633073

 

~► http://www.bobistheo...t&Number=811427

 

Kind Regards.



#14 rdweninger

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 11:36 AM

Tru 'dat Jeszek.   Delo 15-40 in ALL my rigs.  Exceeds military specs that were developed for submarine engines in WWII.   The subs had to change their oil at sea... would leave a big oil slick... planes would spot and bomb.   With the 'new' engine oil - no more oil changes required at sea.

Although, I am looking into Rotella.



#15 MilesFox

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:39 PM

I was looking at oil today comparing brands and specs. Both DELO and Rotella t6 (5w40) both meet API SM standard, for automotive use, but the mobil1 TDT 5w40 meets API SN, which is the current standard.

 

For the records, mobil 1 products are made from group 4 base stocks, the mobil super syn from group 3, and as far as i know, the delvac 1300 from group 2 stock.

 

Regardless of brand, the moral of the story is that 40 wt oil has more zinc additives and lighter weights within the same brands. And subaru should use 40 wt over 30 wt unless it is dead cold winter time.


Edited by MilesFox, 06 August 2014 - 09:40 PM.


#16 Crazyeights

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 09:33 AM

@MilesFox

Thank you for doing the research.


Edited by Crazyeights, 07 August 2014 - 07:34 PM.


#17 tundrabrat

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 12:28 AM

You guys are awesome! I threw some edelbrock zinc additive in there and my local shop has a sale on Delo 1 gal ($19.99) so I'm picking up 2.

Engine is very happy and knowing that the cam will add to the noise makes me realize it is really very quiet... Like a happy sewing machine... a torquey sewing machine.

Thanks to all for great advise!

Edited by tundrabrat, 08 August 2014 - 12:34 AM.


#18 hatchsub

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 05:11 AM

Put diesel grade oil in it. You haven't worn the cam and the followers into each other, so there is excess friction occurring between them, creating sound.

The diesel grade oil still has all of the good minerals in it that conventional car engine oil has had taken out.

A 10w30 is your best bet to start with (Rotella 10w30 seems to be pretty easy to find) and let that run for a while.

Did you run any break in oil in it? If you didn't, I'd be worried about your cam flattening out prematurely.

You must have that zinc content to harden and coat that follower/lifter and cam impact surface.

 

Twitch

Unfortunately diesel oil does not have the high levels of zinc it once had.  I should know as i did a bunch of research for my big cam camaro that is still flat tappet.  Im actually running an oil called Spectro that is meant for off road applications mainly because of its high zinc levels.   Have not had any cam problems using this oil.  



#19 Twitch de la Brat

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:03 PM

Unfortunately diesel oil does not have the high levels of zinc it once had.  I should know as i did a bunch of research for my big cam camaro that is still flat tappet.  Im actually running an oil called Spectro that is meant for off road applications mainly because of its high zinc levels.   Have not had any cam problems using this oil.  

 

Diesel oil still is a far cry better than the automotive grade oils running right now. Especially if you buy they tractor specific stuff. That particular oil grade isn't as strict in its mineral and particulate requirements and often carries far more "good stuff" in it than oils for road going vehicles. Fewer emission laws applying to it ;)

 

Twitch






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