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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Need help chasing this oil pressure ghost after reseal.


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21 replies to this topic

#1 Corvid

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:38 AM

Victim is a 1991 legacy, 195K on the ej22, automatic transmission that just got replaced.

I resealed the engine while I had it out, except the oil pan since it wasnt leaking.

 

Plugged everything back in, drivers side HLA's got quiet fast, passenger side stayed loud for a while, oil light flickered and acted weird. Next morning, all lifters were quiet, sounded beautiful, still weird on and off oil pressure light, mostly on at low RPMs. I read that a bad oil filter can produce those symptoms, so I got a nice Bosch unit, changed the oil, installed the nice oil filter, and fired up the engine again.

 

Now, with the high quality oil filter on, the oil pressure light was on solidly, and the lifters that had been quiet started ticking.

 

I checked on here, and most people said to check the pickup screen, so I removed the oil pan, and the pickup is perfectly clear.

 

So now I'm feeling tired and stuck. I'd love to hear your ideas.



#2 987687

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:42 AM

First check to make sure you don't have a wiring issue causing the light to come on. Second, get a real oil pressure gauge so you can see what is actually going on. 

 

Did you pull the oil pump, tighten the screws, and reseal that, too?


Edited by 987687, 11 August 2014 - 05:43 AM.


#3 TOONGA

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:42 AM

Have you checked that the oil sender switch is working properly? is it the original sender?

 

Can you check the actual oil Pressure?

 

Did you change anything on the oil pump? is it the original oil pump?

 

What weight oil are you using?

 

TOONGA



#4 Corvid

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:10 AM

I did pull the oil pump, clean it, check the screws (all tight), and reseal it.

 

I haven't gotten a gauge yet, but the loudly clacking HLAs seemed to indicate that its not just the wiring. I also thought it was strange to have the lifters getting oil, change oil and filter, and then hear the lifters starve out and GET loud.

 

I got a new OPS to try when the lifters were quiet, but the parts store kid grabbed me the wrong one, so I just changed the oil and filter first. I don't have a second car, and didn't want to drive back on dry cams so I moved on to pulling the pan and hoped to find an obstruction.

 

I pulled the brand new filter as well, and it was full of brand new clean oil, in case that's usefull to anyone.

 

It seems like the 2 main options left are clogged journals or something wrong with the pump? Something I'm not seeing?

 

Is there anything I could have done wrong R&Ring the pump? I've done a few of these and don't think I did anything out of step, but I always except that I am capable of mistakes.

 

 

I've been burning the candle pretty hard at both ends, so my mental clarity and creative problem solving are suffering from overwork and undersleep.

 

I'm hoping to crowd source some insight here. Thanks everyone.


Edited by Corvid, 11 August 2014 - 10:17 AM.


#5 Fairtax4me

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:19 AM

Did you use a new o-ring on the back of the pump?

Did you use RTV to seal the pump?

When you pulled the pan did you check the pickup tube for cracks?

#6 Corvid

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:33 AM

Yes, I used a factory o-ring.

 

I did not use RTV on the pump, I used Permatex Anaerobic.

 

I haven't check the tube for cracks with a critical eye, I pullled it and wiped it off. Where do the cracks usually form?



#7 Fairtax4me

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:42 AM

Usually in the bends. It's not a common problem on the older engines though.

When you did the reseal did you remove the rocker shaft assembly's?
What else did you remove for the reseal?

Have you checked the wiring to the pressure switch yet? If the wiring is chafed it can rub on the alternator or intake manifold and turn the light on.

#8 Corvid

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:52 AM

I did the typical, cams, crank, oil pump, water pump, seperator plate, access hole, timing kit, valve covers routine.

 

Did not pull the rocker assemblies.

 

Heading out the driveway in a moment to triple check the wire path and the pickup tube.


Edited by Corvid, 11 August 2014 - 11:02 AM.


#9 Corvid

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:04 AM

The wiring looks good, no wear spots or contact spots.

 

Tube looks good, no cracks or visual clues of a problem. Not even a spec of RTV in the screen.



#10 Corvid

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:28 PM

Okay, today I resealed the oil pan, pickup tube, and PCV seal at back of oil pan.

 

I also replaced the Oil Pressure Switch.

 

Unplugged coil, cranking never puts out oil pressure light. No identifiable difference, but I'm knocking out options.

 

I got a cheap oil gauge today, but the fitting is wrong, so no data from that.

 

I'd love to hear some ideas about why oil pumps don't do their jobs after a reseal. I'm going to hack into it tomorrow anyway, but really appreciate things to look for or consider.

 

Thanks.



#11 Fairtax4me

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:28 PM

These pumps are very simple, and difficult to damage. If the pump is put together dry it can take several seconds of cranking before the pump starts pulling oil up the pickup tube. The big concern there isn't the pump, its the bearings in the engine.
If the pump was dry and you started the engine the bearings may now be damaged from running dry.


I think the pressure switch thread is 24 or 28 pitch BPT. Kinda hard to find sometimes. If you can't get a fitting with the right thread remove the hex plug from the block. It has a much more common thread. Take it to a hardware store and get a brass coupler with the proper thread to match the pressure guage hose.

#12 Corvid

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 01:28 PM

Well, yes, my concern isnt for the longterm health of the oil pump.

 

My concern is that it seems to not be working correctly and being such a simple object, I'm confused as to what could be wrong.

 

When I fired up the engine after reseal, I primed the oil pump with cranking and the HLAs got quiet, which seems to indicate some oil pressure.

 

Then the OPS started coming on intermitently, so I began looking into things.



#13 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 02:26 PM

I read once of a guy with similar symptoms (but in an STI) and he discovered mis-routing of breather and PCV hoses. It caused a vacuum in is crankcase. He even heard gurgling I think from the dipstick tube?

 

maybe pull the stick and check for the feeling of a vacuum from the tube - or if the pressure light goes off/changes?

 

weird I know but, easy to check.


Edited by 1 Lucky Texan, 12 August 2014 - 02:27 PM.


#14 Corvid

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 03:56 PM

I read once of a guy with similar symptoms (but in an STI) and he discovered mis-routing of breather and PCV hoses. It caused a vacuum in is crankcase. He even heard gurgling I think from the dipstick tube?

 

maybe pull the stick and check for the feeling of a vacuum from the tube - or if the pressure light goes off/changes?

 

weird I know but, easy to check.

Hahahaha, its easier to check if i didn't JUST pull the radiator.

-sigh-

I'll throw it back on and refill, because with my luck, I'd R&R the oil pump again, only to have it be a hose on the snorkus.

Thanks.



#15 Fairtax4me

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 04:44 PM

You would have to have full intake vacuum going straight to the oil pump for that to be a problem. There's just no way that can happen.

The passages in the rocker shaft that feed the rockers are extremely small and easy to clog. It's common for them to clog after removing the oil pump, and the lifters collapse.

I think you need to get a pressure guage on it and get an idea of the actual oil pressure rather than relying on the light.

#16 Corvid

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 06:23 PM

While a gauge may be good protocol, i dont think i need further data on this one.

 

Look what was inside the oil pump.

Attached Files


Edited by Corvid, 12 August 2014 - 06:46 PM.


#17 Corvid

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 06:27 PM

Let this be a lesson to you kids, energy drinks are no substitute for sleep. Surgeons forget tools and sponges inside people all the time, and they are getting paid well, not laying on the concrete in the driveway at night, and doing something else for money all day. Always triple check.

#18 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 10:52 PM

yikes! paper towel ?



#19 Fairtax4me

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:37 PM

So that's where that went!

#20 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:07 AM

Oh my! If I ever go in for surgery.. i'm bringing a go pro.



#21 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 07:27 AM

You would have to have full intake vacuum going straight to the oil pump for that to be a problem. There's just no way that can happen.

The passages in the rocker shaft that feed the rockers are extremely small and easy to clog. It's common for them to clog after removing the oil pump, and the lifters collapse.

I think you need to get a pressure guage on it and get an idea of the actual oil pressure rather than relying on the light.

 

I mis-remembered what car it was. but here's the post I recall;

 

http://www.subaruout...rs-low-rpm.html



#22 dubs283

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 09:29 AM

not the first, or last time this has happened (myself included)

 

glad ya found it corvid, hope all be sooth sailing from here on out

 

sage advice as well, triple check your work. i will add, take breaks on the major overhaul stuff. its easy to get distracted and have your mind wander on bigger projects. its a good idea to leave the cell phone inside while torquing the heads too, mine rang twice while in the middle of the seemingly strange and convoluted torque sequence!

 

i will quote a late member from another board i post to: "why is there never enough time to do it right the first time, but always time to do it again?"


Edited by dubs283, 13 August 2014 - 09:30 AM.





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