Cpm590 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Legacy wouldn't start. Seem to not be getting fuel. Plugged in a scanner and got 336 and 325 codes. Crankshaft position sensor and knock sensor. Replaced the crank sensor but still wouldn't start. Noticed that the wires to the plug that goes into the sensor we're exposed and very worn. Couldn't find anyone who has this part. Guy at Subaru had trouble finding the part said they would call back when they found it. Still haven't heard back. Pulled two plugs from the junkyard and tried splicing each of them. Still won't start. Don't know where to go from this point. Are there other issues that can come from a 336 code? Has anyone had this problem with their Subaru? Any help and suggestions would be great. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Should have first verified the fuel pump is working as you suspect that is the problem. Then check for a broken timing belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Knock sensor is a common one but not one that I suspect would cause a no start. Crank position sensor would point to a jumped/stripped/snapped timing belt. What year is your legacy? When was the last time the timing belt and components were changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonInMontana Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Legacy wouldn't start. Seem to not be getting fuel. Plugged in a scanner and got 336 and 325 codes. Crankshaft position sensor and knock sensor. Replaced the crank sensor but still wouldn't start. Noticed that the wires to the plug that goes into the sensor we're exposed and very worn. Couldn't find anyone who has this part. Guy at Subaru had trouble finding the part said they would call back when they found it. Still haven't heard back. Pulled two plugs from the junkyard and tried splicing each of them. Still won't start. Don't know where to go from this point. Are there other issues that can come from a 336 code? Has anyone had this problem with their Subaru? Any help and suggestions would be great. Thanks. Have you cleared the codes and then checked that they re-set? Is it getting fuel? Can you hear the fuel pump power up when you turn the key on? Is the fuel system pressurizing properly? And like the others said, check the timing belt. Make sure to do all of the zero-cost checks before throwing money at hit-or-miss possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpm590 Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Just now had a chance to look at these posts. Thanks for all the feedback. The car is a 97 wagon 2.2. The water pump was replaced in 2010or 11. They replaced the belts at that time but not sure about any components. I'll have to find the paperwork. They seem ok. They're on the pulleys and look in decent shape. The pulleys and belts were turning while we tried to crank it over. I noticed the upper pulley on the right side that drives the thinner belt has an outer plate that I could pretty easily turn by hand. Not sure what this part is or if that's how it should be. It seems to be not getting fuel but when you turn the ignition to ON it sounds like the fuel pump is turning on. Pretty sure the codes are cleared but only because I had the battery unhooked for awhile at one point. Don't know if clearing them that way would make a difference. As far as being reset not sure. I don't have a scanner. I was able to borrow one from a parts store but don't currently have one with me. I started with the sensor and then the plug just basing it on what the trouble codes were saying. I read a little about a reluctor disc being a possible cause but I have know idea how to check that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 some plastic covers would need to be removed to view the toothed timing belt and to check proper timing of the crank and cam pulleys. you may need a mechanic if this is outside your abilities. Sometimes, an old trick of holding a strip of paper at the tailpipe while cranking, to observe if it seems to be sucked inside at some point, MIGHT help point to slipped timing belt problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec03 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 +1 to luckey texan. You need to take off the timing belt covers. You should have done this first. Then check to see that the HASH marks all line up [to approximately 12:00 ]. You can take off the timing belt covers, despite not having great mechanical abilities. There are tons of DIY's that show how its done. Anyone can do it. Here's one: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2111702 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I noticed the upper pulley on the right side that drives the thinner belt has an outer plate that I could pretty easily turn by hand. Not sure what this part is or if that's how it should be.That's the air conditioning compressor, the timing belt is behind the black plastic cover behind that thin belt driving the a/c compressor. The easiest piece of the timing belt cover to get off is right behind the coolant overflow tank. The tank is easy to remove too for better access. That timing belt cover piece is only three bolts, then you can see if the timing belt is broken at least. If the receipt from the water pump replacement says they replaced the belts, they may be talking about the accessory drive belts and not the timing belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I just had a TB break on my '95, 2.2 motor. I suspected either a bad TB or fuel pump, so I pulled off the air intake, and with the help of a friend squirted started fluid into the intake, and then cranked the motor. The motor refused to start, and could tell that there was no suction while cranking the motor, so could pretty well deduce that the valves weren't working to indicate a bad timing belt. I had the car towed to a garage, where they confirmed a bad TB. Thank God my '95 motor is non interference, so no valve damage. I would have liked to have a kit of new tensioners and pulleys installed along with the new TB, but couldn't obtain a kit quick enough. The shop said all existing pulleys and tensioners were still good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) ^^^ good point, a broken (or completely 'dislodged') timing belt would probably allow both cams to snap the valves shut and cranking would have no air movement at the tailpipe at all. Edited December 1, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj7291993 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Check the belt first. Then you can check fuel. Just because you can hear the fuel pump, doesn't mean it's working. It's a good start, though. Take the fuel line off from the rail (the one that comes from the filter), put it in an empty soda can (or some other container that won't melt from gas), and have someone turn the key to on (don't crank it). See if you get any fuel coming out. If it seems to be coming out pretty good, with decent pressure, it should be enough to start. You'll also want to check for spark. Take one of the spark plug wires off, put a screwdriver in it (gently, don't damage it), and lay it so the metal shaft lays about 1/4" of of the engine (or anything metal attached to it), then have someone crank the engine. Do you see a spark? all of these check okay, then come back and let us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpm590 Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 Well, we all learned that I didn't know where the hell the timing belt was. Always assumed it was one of the external belts. Embarrassing. Finally had good enough weather to work on the car. I removed some of the covers to take a look at the timing belt. The belt isn't broken. I turned the crankshaft manually and from what I could tell there's a single line marker ,a double line marker that's dotted on one end with lines running horizontal and is about an inch wide and then another single line marker after that as you turn it. None of these markers line up with the notch on the pulley that is now visible. The closest is one of the single lines that lines up at about 11 o'clock or 5 of the belt teeth to the left when the pulley notch is at 12. Not sure how much play there should be on the belt but there seems to be a good bit as its coming towards the top of the pulley. wondering how much play is a good amount. Also If the tensioner could be the issue. Saw where someone had a bad one and had caused some knocking. I noticed some knocking a few days leading up to the no start on mine. Wasnt real real bad but was enough to notice the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) it takes 200-400 revolutions for any timing BELT marks to synchronize again after initial installation. Position the crank mark, then look at the cams. seems like the tensioner may have failed? Edited December 4, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpm590 Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 Checked the fuel line. Fuel came out at a pretty good clip. Remember seeing spark earlier on when I first started trying to figure out what the problem was. I'm going to check that again. Feel good that I have some directions to try and head in at least. Really had no clue after the sensor change didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj7291993 Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) For some reason, the first time I posted, I forgot you had a code. My apologies. Does it still have the CKP code? Also, does the tachometer move while cranking? If it still has the CKP code, I'd look there first. The "correct" way to check one is with an oscilloscope. Since I'm guessing you don't have one, there is another way to check them (note, this only works on 2-wire sensors, which fortunately, yours is). You can pull the sensor out, and see if it is magnetic. It's not 100%, but it's a pretty good indication. If it's not, the go ahead and replace it. Not sure why Subaru wouldn't be able to find it, but NAPA's part number is CSS973, it's about $30. They have it in stock here, guessing they should be able to get it where you're at. If that's ok, check the cam sensor as well. I've seen some cars where the CMP can cause a ckp code. Less likely, but still possible. NAPA CMP PN: CSS826. Edit: Looks like the NAPA in Oxford has none in stock, but they can order them. In Colorado, if it comes from our local DC, it is usually in no later than next day. Nice thing about NAPA, since they do a lot of commercial, they're usually pretty quick about getting things in. Edited December 6, 2014 by Dj7291993 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj7291993 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Any news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpm590 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 For some reason, the first time I posted, I forgot you had a code. My apologies. Does it still have the CKP code? Also, does the tachometer move while cranking? If it still has the CKP code, I'd look there first. The "correct" way to check one is with an oscilloscope. Since I'm guessing you don't have one, there is another way to check them (note, this only works on 2-wire sensors, which fortunately, yours is). You can pull the sensor out, and see if it is magnetic. It's not 100%, but it's a pretty good indication. If it's not, the go ahead and replace it. Not sure why Subaru wouldn't be able to find it, but NAPA's part number is CSS973, it's about $30. They have it in stock here, guessing they should be able to get it where you're at. If that's ok, check the cam sensor as well. I've seen some cars where the CMP can cause a ckp code. Less likely, but still possible. NAPA CMP PN: CSS826. Edit: Looks like the NAPA in Oxford has none in stock, but they can order them. In Colorado, if it comes from our local DC, it is usually in no later than next day. Nice thing about NAPA, since they do a lot of commercial, they're usually pretty quick about getting things in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpm590 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Not sure if it still has that code . Borrowed a scanner from a local parts store when I first had the problem. Is the part number you posted for a crankshaft sensor or for the plug that connects into the sensor? I got a new crankshaft sensor based on the codes that came up and still had a no start. The plug for the senor had exposed wires and looked like it may be the issue so was looking to replace that part. Wasn't able to find the part anywhere except a salvage yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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