Mikevan10 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 The turbocharger on my kid's 2008 Legacy GT Limited failed recently. He has owned it from new and it has 117,000 miles on it. He is gathering the parts now and we plan to swap in a replacement unit this weekend. I just thought I would start a thread on this and invite comments anyone may have and I will also update it about the little project. At this point, I believe the replacement turbo will be from a WRX. Be talking to you. Mike V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Be sure to check the rest of the motor. It's very common on those, when the turbo fails, it involves the bearings in the motor as well. A common swap, is the vf52 turbo, but make sure you have it tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Would you please elaborate on the bearing issue? Are you suggesting that the main and/or rod bearings may be damaged? If so, please explain the cause of this. Thanks, Mike V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 So heres the run down. When the oil doesn't get changed regularly enough, it eventually plugs the screen filter inside the banjo bolt for the oil feed to the turbo and starves it. It will damage the turbo shaft and the metal bits that come off of it get dumped into the back of the passenger side head. It then gets cycled down to the oil pan where it gets picked back up and run through the engine. If the car was driven with a failing turbo, it can potentially send all the metal through the engine and takes the bearings out. I've done countless turbos and engines in the 2005-2008 Legacys, Outbacks and Foresters. I have a whole barrel filled with junk turbos. Also, Subaru has an engine oil flush they recommend to use before turbo replacement. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp6889928 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) The issue is that when the turbo fails (generally if it grenades) it dumps the materials from the grinding and hammering directly into the oil pan where the metal is picked up by your oil pickup and sent through the system and into rods/mains/cams/heads. If you caught it soon enough and shut it off very quickly after hearing it fail, you can generally do what I outline below and usually be OK. Just take your time and clean everything as thoroughly as possible and closely inspect everything. Immediately go to www.blackstone-labs.com and order a used oil analysis test kit and be ready to use it. These people can tell you exactly what's going on inside of your engine based on the metal and material content in the used oil and can save you a lot of grief. Drain your existing oil through a piece of women's nylon hose and check to see what ends up there as far as flakes or metal chunks. You'll want the Blackstone Labs kit for the next change. Remove the pan and clean and flush it thoroughly. Inspect closely for any flakes or chunks of metal. I clean them about half a dozen times with gasoline and also solvent. Remove the oil pickup and clean and inspect closely. There have been issues with earlier models having the oil pickup cracking at the weld and when this happens, it's the end of the engine. You can purchase aftermarket pickups from KillerB (expensive) or from Covert Performance and Moroso (much easier pricing to swallow) and they are made better than the stock Subaru pickups. Remove the banjo bolt filters if applicable and throw them away and do not replace them-reuse the bolts. There are a couple of write ups on removing the front banjo bolt filter on the DS head to OCV line on www.legacygt.com that can help you out immensely. If I can find the link, I'll post it for you. Remove the PS side head oil feed line for turbo/OCV and completely flush the line out and make sure it's clean before reinstall. Replace the oil cooler as this is a place for chunks and flakes to hide and you can never flush them out. Once you have all of this done, reinstall everything and install your turbo with new drain hose and clamps. If the drain hose comes off, it's the end of the engine. Refill the engine with cheap oil as you're only going to run it for a little while to use as a flush. Any dino oil can work (Walmart, Meijers, or any other inexpensive..HAHA...right...oil) because it will only be run for about an hour and this you'll take a sample of and send to Blackstone Labs. Prime the turbo with a turkey baster or syringe full of fresh oil to insure a non-dry startup. Remove your fuel pump fuse and crank the engine over about 15-20 seconds to run the new oil through the system and then reiinstall the fuse. Start the engine and listen closely. If you hear ANY noises, shut it down and inspect. Make sure there are no exhaust leaks as these can make all kinds of sounds that are not a failure but you sure will think there is something failing. Make sure that you have no liquid leaks and that you burp the cooling system completely to purge any air. I can send you the procedure to do this if you're not familiar with it. Run the engine for about an hour gently revving it up and down every now and then to make sure that everything is working as hoped. After an hour, drain the oil again (take a sample of the oil BEFORE the panty hose in the Blackstone Labs UOA kit) through another piece of panty hose and look very closely for any flakes or metal. If it looks clean, install a new Subaru blue filter or Mazda Roki black filter and fill with new Rotella T6 5W/30 or Amsoil Euro 5W20 but NEVER run Mobil 1 as it has proven itself time and time again to not be friendly to turbo journal bearings. Send in your sample to Blackstone Labs along with $20 and they'll send you back complete information in layman's terms as to exactly what is going on inside of your engine and what to expect. Drive the car gently for 200-300 miles to make sure everything is OK, checking the oil frequently and making sure no liquid or exhaust leaks and by then, you should have the UOA back and know if you're good to go. Good luck. It's a lot of work but worth it. Edited December 31, 2014 by jmp6889928 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Oh my god! I had no idea about the collateral damage! So the engine may already be trashed.... OK, can someone please direct me to a manual for the turbo system on this car at least. I need to do some research. Thanks, Mike V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp6889928 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Oh my god! I had no idea about the collateral damage! So the engine may already be trashed.... OK, can someone please direct me to a manual for the turbo system on this car at least. I need to do some research. Thanks, Mike V. Hi Mike, No need for that, honestly. If you follow what I have said above it's actually not nearly as difficult as it reads. It's a lot of work, but it's pretty basic work and not a lot of truly intricate or delicate stuff to worry about. Normally when a turbo blows (read "Grenades") the stuff goes right out the bottom of the turbo and right into the oil pan and the pickup can grab it. If you didn't drive it very far or if it just blew with a chuffing sound and started to screech and you stopped and shut it off, you most likely have no issues with the rest of the engine. The problem is that it's a crapshoot if you don't do the stuff above. If you do it (the stuff above), it takes some time, and it is some work, but you know for sure what you have then and where you're starting from (and it's not a $5K complete engine rebuild/shortblock replacement). The Blackstone Labs UOA are the best tool you can have. They are a no BS company and they do such a great job of explaining what and where and why and how, that you'll be really pleased when you read the report. If I can help, PM me and I'll give you a number you can text me at for questions, but if you're mechanically inclined and have done work on cars before, it's basically simple but time consuming work. I suggest you go to www.nasioc.com and look at some walkthroughs for the removal of the pan and some other stuff, but you'll find them to be easy and self explanatory. The biggest thing is TAKE YOUR TIME, CLEAN-CLEAN-CLEAN and CLEAN some more, and then reassemble carefully and deliberately. If something doesn't look like you think it should, take it back apart and redo it to make sure. Again, it's about $5K out of your pocket if you try to shortcut it and it's not worth it. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp6889928 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Here's the threads on www.legacygt.com to remove the banjo bolt filters with excellent photographs as well as descriptions. I'm not sure if your particular model has them or not, but best to look and you need to make sure and flush the OCV lines anyway. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/remove-all-banjo-filters-222758.html?t=222758&highlight=Remove+banjo+bolt+filters Also look at post number 2 from Hammerdown as he has several links there to alternate ways to remove the DS banjo filter. I suggest removing the rear banjo bolt at the turbo (where Covertrrussian has circled in red) and checking to see if it has a filter in it or not. If not, then perhaps your particular vehicle does not have them. Good luck, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks, I found the fsm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Looks like I need to disconnect the engine mounts and lift the engine from above in order to remove the oil pan. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Another question: Do any of these turbo cars have an exhaust gas temperature sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp6889928 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Correct on lifting the engine to remove the pan. Take the nuts off the motor mounts and take one end off on upper torsion mount (dogbone), and then use a floor jack with a small piece of plywood between the jack pad and oil pan and lift the engine up out of the cradle. Put a small chunk of 2x4 under each mount on top of subframe. Should have easy access to all pan bolts and plenty of room to remove the pan. EGT was on 05 for sure but i don't know for sure on your model year. If so, it would be located in the up pipe. Do a resistor mod and throw the damn EGT away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks jmp. I figured there was a work around. Regarding the exhaust gas temp sensor, doesn't its signal get used by the computer> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp6889928 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks jmp. I figured there was a work around. Regarding the exhaust gas temp sensor, doesn't its signal get used by the computer> The EGT is used by the computer but if you put a 2.2K ohm resistor (available in a 5 pack from Radio Shack for about $3.95) between the two leads, it will make the ECM happy that everything is running as efficiently as possible. It tricks the ECM into thinking it's directly in the middle of best operating temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp6889928 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) One last thing I forgot to mention-in reading your original post, you state that you believe the replacement turbo will be off of a WRX. Make sure it's a flange style turbo and not a nipple style. The nipple style compressor housing is the WRX/STi style for the center mounted throttle body intake manifold while the flange style compressor housing (which is what you have) is for the TMIC that mounts directly to the turbo compressor housing on one end and the throttle body on the other end with a TB to TMIC hose. You CANNOT remove the housing from one and just put it on the other. There are quite a lot of differences and it must be clocked correctly and sealed. I can take a look at what you have if you wish and let you know the best course of action. Send me photos of the turbos to jmp6889928@gmail.com and I'll get back to you via email with recommendations. Legacy GT's used the plastic intake manifold with the throttle body at the DS end pointed at an angle towards the brake booster and it's easiest to find a VF40, VF46, VF52, or even a Td04H flanged housing and just do a replace. If I can help you on this, don't hesitate to ask. I done...ohh...say...300 replacements or so...LOL. I have a couple of tricks that you'll find useful. Good luck. Edited January 3, 2015 by jmp6889928 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 The turbocharger was well and truly destroyed. Shaft broken between turbine and compressor wheels. Pile of filings in bottom of housing. Seems like most of the above mentioned inspections are moot. I would fully expect to find lots of debris in the oil pan and that debris was picked up by the oil pump. Decision time. Why wouldn't the oil filter keep the particles from doing damage to the rest of the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp6889928 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Oil goes through the engine as it's picked up by the oil pickup tube before it gets to the oil filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 Quote: Oil goes through the engine as it's picked up by the oil pickup tube before it gets to the oil filter. Are you kidding me? Please advise where, in the lubrication circuit, the oil filter is located. Thanks, Mike V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmp6889928 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 When you get the pan off, you'll see more of what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 on second thought i'll look for the non-turbo. this is as bad as the head gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvu Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Quote: Why wouldn't the oil filter keep the particles from doing damage to the rest of the engine? Oil filters have a relief valve that opens if there's a high enough pressure differential. It will open and bypass any filtering with cold oil or quick spurts of high revs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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