pginter96 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Looking for a replacement for the "Action Wagon." 01 Outback H6-3.0 LL Bean edition with 209K and NO body rust (here in new york thats a big deal.) for $2900. As Im losing motivation to keep fixing my old 97 OBW, Ive been looking at something newer-ish (to me). I just know very little about the EZ30 engines. How are they reliability-wise? and how would that reliability be for someone with a 97 Legacy EJ25D that blew head gaskets, so he swapped in a EJ22E with a knock? Good/Bad experiences? Oh, and do these eat transmissions like EG33s? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 It is a fine engine. It is a fine drive train. Just the engine is a bit heavy for the front brake rotors and wheel bearings so they tend to wear out sooner then usual, but not a deal breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdconvert Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 It sounds like a good deal. I've had an LL Bean for a couple years and think it's a great car other than having to unplug the sunroof drains twice. High octane fuel is recommended. Check it for torque bind before you get it. I used to live in upstate NY, so I understand your rust comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 we have an 06 LL Bean in the family with the 3.0 H6 - good motor - plenty of power - this thing will throw you back in your seat when you punch it. Chain driven timing = pretty much no maintenance on that. Keep the oil changed and coolant full and you should be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 x2. My wife has been driving an 06 LL Bean for about 6 months now. Head gasket issues are few and far between. Timing chain and water pump designed to last the life of the motor. Spark plugs are a bit of a bear to do in the car. And I've heard that bearings on the alt and AC tensioners wear out quickly but there's a thread somewhere on inexpensive Napa parts that replace them over the expensive Subaru OEM I did a motor swap on our 06 (Bought it with a bad motor.) I think it's your usual 4EAT trans. If the transmission doesn't last it would be because of aggressive driving habits and not a fault in the trans. The EZ30 is powerful and being AWD you don't feel it like you would in a mustang so it's probably pretty easy to thrash the tranny if you aren't careful. Her car with EZ30 and auto easily accelerates over the steep mountains passes around here while my 2000 with the EJ25 and 5MT chugs it's way over in 3rd gear. You'll love it. They drive really nicely. Just treat it with a little extra care as motors are more expensive than the EJ and tighter to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I've considered them a bunch but compared to the 98 Outback with a 95 2.2 its got me saying no I don't need all that stuff under the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Thanks for the input, everyone. I will be checking the car out tomorrow. Not expecting perfection, but I have always been curious about them and you don't see too many. I've considered them a bunch but compared to the 98 Outback with a 95 2.2 its got me saying no I don't need all that stuff under the hood. This is the view I kinda share. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of buying an engine without seeing it run (without the intention of putting it in my car) and ran it anyways. It hasn't exactly been a constant stream of problems, but at the same time I have no idea of how much life is left in it, it knocks pretty bad. Too bad, its a peppy little engine (if a little gutless on the hills) but it does have a few... issues. Ive done a little research on the EZ30D, and it looks like the 01 was a "phase 1" with pretty simple operation, along the lines of my current rig. the only issue will be getting to everything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Well I drove the car today. That was intersting... First of all, it was 8 degrees out. Car didnt start, popped a fuel line out, there was some air in it, put it back on and she fired right up (price just went down!) Car didnt heat up after running 10 minutes. Second I started driving it the heat got nice and warm, then cold again at idle. Upon further inspection, there was no coolant in the reservoir. (Price just went down some more!) Rear wiper doesnt work, wearing too many layers to tell if the heated seats do. Pretty scary vibration from the rear at speed, and a clunk at low speed coming from the rear as well. Looks like a newer U joint at the driveshaft/rear end. Pulled off the highway in a parking lot to check for torque bind, none, but got out and it smelled like axle grease and there was some on the exhaust only below the u joint. Again, he was asking $2900. Is it worth beating him up on the price and fixing it or should I walk away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Up to you buet here are my feelings. When buying used expect the worst Fuel lines dont just pop off (fuel pressure regulator?). No coolant in resivoir means at the very least it is not loved, and has a l;eak someplace. That leak could be anything at this mileage (hose radiator or head gasket). Rear wiper working, that is so minor and an easy fix ill just skip it for now. Vlunk in the rear could be a rear diff, vibration could be the driveshaft (along with clunk, mileage is correct for this). Its winter in chicagoland. If the car is perfect, you have a place to work on it, you dont need the car to be a daily driver right now and you can beat the price down it is up to you. I never expect the heated drivers seat to work on any car at that mileage so i am only disappointed half the time. Get a mechanic to look at it since it is winter, very winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 What's your access to parts like? And your ability/location to work on it? My one question that I would want answered is the low coolant. Confirm that the headgaskets are not the cause. If you're not already versed in them, do some searches on here. Or have a compression test done/have a mechanic with their fancy toys check it. If no headgasket issues, it sounds like a decent price. These cars are selling for 5-8k around me in good running condition. Assume the worst about some of the other stuff and it's still not terrible if you're comfortable turning a wrench. Vibration - sounds like driveshaft. If you can find one in a U-pull it they ballpark is $30-$50 for a replacement. Double that from a dismantler and about 30 minutes under the car to swap it out. Could be rear diff. A little more work and cost than driveshaft. Could be failing axle. Not a bad fix at all. Sounds like the car is not one that you would want to instantly rely on for daily driving. But if you have something else to drive while you spend some time and $$$ then it may be a good choice. The price is right. And if you speculate the possible issues with him, you can probably get that price down. If it were me (Who has space to work on a car, no fear of taking things apart and reliable transportation already) If no headgasket issues - I'd explain to the guy the issues I found with it. Tell him I'd be interested in it as a fixer upper but given the time/cost/hassle of it that I'd be in for more like $2000. Throwing a good ballpark number like that can get things going. He may surprise you and take it. He may counter offer. Who knows. But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Coolant being low is the scariest, everything else is CV joints or a used driveshaft from a boneyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Pin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I have had a 02 LL Bean for 6 years. Nice ride. I would bring some coolant and go back & drive it again.Before starting it, check the radiator and the overflow tank to make sure there is sufficient coolant in each. See if it starts right up this time. Almost sounds like it needs a thermostat otherwise. Make sure you get no bubbles in teh overflow coolant tank after it is good and warm. Ditto on the rest of the comments. I would offer $2400.00 if it all checks out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 those are great motors if you get one without headgasket issues. that's about the only engine issue they have. *** what is your assessment of the seller? i would walk or not largely based on them, not the car. but i find it rather easy to tell if someone is worth dealing with or not. they know if it's overheating/has headgasket symptoms or not - are they describing/telling the truth? test drive it at interstate speeds, look for fluctuating temp gauge or overheating, look for bubbles in the overflow. these HG's are way more complicated to repair than EJ engines. 100 timing chain cover bolts...on one that i did all but 3 of the front 57 needed chiseled out due to rust/stripping. the rear cover has 15 orings and 15 miles of sealant. i just finished an H6 headgasket on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Like Gary said, head gasket issues aren't as prevalent as the EJs but are a lot more time consuming to do them. Mostly they like to leak oil from the valve covers, oil cooler and timing chain case. They also have a common electrical issue regarding the throttle position sensor. It can cause bucking and unsteady throttle feel especially when you get on an incline. I've had issues with mine the last couple years but it didn't get real bad until yesterday. Ordered a new TPS and the short wiring harness that goes to it (as they can sometimes have a bit more resistance in the wiring) but the harness itself isn't cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Looking for a replacement for the "Action Wagon." 01 Outback H6-3.0 LL Bean edition with 209K and NO body rust (here in new york thats a big deal.) for $2900. As Im losing motivation to keep fixing my old 97 OBW, Ive been looking at something newer-ish (to me). I just know very little about the EZ30 engines. How are they reliability-wise? and how would that reliability be for someone with a 97 Legacy EJ25D that blew head gaskets, so he swapped in a EJ22E with a knock? Good/Bad experiences? Oh, and do these eat transmissions like EG33s? Thanks! If you want more power, get the EZ36 instead. They are apparently cheap and the junkyards consider them the same as a 3.0L. Dunno how much wire work is needed to get it running, but could be worth the effort for the extra power and having it bolt up and fit just like the 3.0L does. I'm considering this in my 95' Legacy at some point as it basically doubles the hp from the EJ22 130 hp to 260hp @6k with around 250 tq @4400 which is actually really good for a 6 cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Decided not to get it. Looking it over in hindsight, it has too many things wrong with it to not scare me away. Im not afraid of work, I did an EJ22 swap after all, but I am afraid of spending money. Parts for the H6 are hard to find and expensive when you find them. With changes in my college and work schedule, I dont exactly have the time for a project right now anyways.The car is at least 45 minutes away, so I don't expect to have another visit up there.But since diagnosis is both fun and educational, here goes:The owner-Employee of used car dealer, flips cars on the side. This is one of them and he knows nothing about subarus (had it advertised as a V6). He got this one only by hearsay, he heard the 4 cylinders had issues and the 6 cylinder was a good motor. Theres some truth there, but its everything connected to the engine thats the problem...He said he drove the car for a week without issue when he first got it. Said the vibration was not there. Every fault I pointed out, he replied with "could that just be from sitting?" Again, some truth there, but...The mechanic at the shop was a good guy, younger, knew his stuff. We talked about my car for a bit, he said his mom had a 'super rare' 96 legacy sedan with every option except the leather interior.The no start-Owner said he had it sitting on the lot for about a month and a half. Said it never had an issue starting it. He said he moved it several times. I believe that could be the issue, running a motor for 30 seconds at a time, then shutting it off has a tendancy to foul out spark plugs (More so on the H6? I hear of it more on them) especially in the cold weather.The coolant thing-Like I said, it barely warmed up the inside of the car after running for 15 minutes at idle. The second I touched the gas, nice warm air came out of the vents. The needle sat steadily at about 3/4 of the way up the dial, which is warmer than normal. Didnt fluctuate or jump at all. I would like to say thermostat and/or low coolant, but (Ive been down this long road of denial before!) when I looked in the reservoir there were bubbles. Not sure if this was from head gasket failure or just having the coolant level at the very bottom of the reservoir, level with the overflow hose.The vibration-I doubt it would be axle shafts, they looked fairly new, and it also had brand new rear suspension bushings. Could be a diff, but the fact that it had no torque bind and didnt change on corners/swerving leads me to believe its a driveshaft. Hell, could even be a tire, but I doubt it. The 'Rust-Free'- turned out to be very well concealed bondo and proper application of the correct shade of burgundy metallic paint. The cancer has started to spread, you can tell by running your fingers under the fender. Other things (and the little, OCD things)--Looks like some trans work had been done. Any grease/oil/dirt had been wiped away from the trans and bellhousing. Exhaust had also recently been removed, had new flange bolts (on the topic of exhaust, it had the strangest looking muffler Ive ever seen. It had a pipe come out of the side, through a resonator, and back into the muffler.)-Seepage around trans cooler lines, and many many miles worth of oil leak residue on the crossmember.-Ran like a dream, sounds kinda like a porsche. -It smelled weird -handled surprisingly well, Ive always thought these outbacks look bloated and giant compared to mine but driving it felt surprisingly small. -needs a serpentine belt, and some pulley had a pretty good growl to it -half of the heating grid on the back window was scratched off (dog or something, knowing subaru outbacks...) -pulled right So if anyone in the Buffalo/Tonawanda NY area is interested in a project H6, Ive done the research for you! The ads still on craigslist as of now... Edited January 23, 2015 by pginter96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) If you want more power, get the EZ36 instead. They are apparently cheap and the junkyards consider them the same as a 3.0L. Dunno how much wire work is needed to get it running, but could be worth the effort for the extra power and having it bolt up and fit just like the 3.0L does. I'm considering this in my 95' Legacy at some point as it basically doubles the hp from the EJ22 130 hp to 260hp @6k with around 250 tq @4400 which is actually really good for a 6 cylinder. Interesting, but it sounds like it would vaporize my torque converter before it would even have a chance to roast clutch packs and differentials... Not to mention that an EJ25-22 swap is about as easy as changing shirts, theres a LOT of computer related things that would need to happen for that. And correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt the EZ36 use the 5EAT? Ive done research on 6 cylinder swaps, mainly EG33s, and it seems like theres a lack of space in the BG/BK/BD body. Edited January 23, 2015 by pginter96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 Wonder Wedge Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 As a frequent sufferer of rust belt cars, that is not a "no rust" car. I'd give that rear crossmember another 2 years in that environment. Total surface rust is one thing, nasty scale at the edges and seams is another. Good call on walking. This guy bought it at auction, maybe pad slapped it and just threw it on the lot. ANYTHING out of a third tier (or any dealer for that matter) dealer's mouth is either bullshit or omitting knowledge. He was probably Serbian, too, wasn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Interesting, but it sounds like it would vaporize my torque converter before it would even have a chance to roast clutch packs and differentials... Not to mention that an EJ25-22 swap is about as easy as changing shirts, theres a LOT of computer related things that would need to happen for that. And correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt the EZ36 use the 5EAT? Ive done research on 6 cylinder swaps, mainly EG33s, and it seems like theres a lack of space in the BG/BK/BD body. I imagine a 4EAT can handle it as a daily driver so long as you aren't neutral dropping it at 5k. HEAT is the biggest killer of auto trans (new or old), as well as really old fluid. If it were me, I add a small trans cooler and watch the temps. Ideally, you want to know the temps with a EJxx engine first, then run the EZxx. If temps were say, 50 degrees F hotter w/o a cooler, add a trans cooler and see if they fall enough. Adding a small fan on the cooler (with a thermostat switch) would help too. Torque converters, when paired with more torque, will typically stall a few hundred rpms highers. Meaning if you mash on it in with a 1x0 hp EJxx, and it stalls at say 500 rpm (no idea where it actually stalls, but it's low), behind a EZxx it might stall at 600-700. It really depends on the EZxx power band. peak tq is 4400, so it's probably decent at off-idle. But with an AWD system that's basically over engineered. Basically it leave the line with a few more hp As long you aren't racing it on a track or abusing it, it should work. I've seen swaps in the late 90's Legacy and it fit right up. Would need to fit the manifolds/cats to the factory cat-back pipe, which at 1 7/8" is too small for a single 6 cylinder pipe. So, you'd need to do some work in Legacy, Impreza, Forester, etc. but it uses the same engine mount locations and physically bolts up. Grab the donor harness and as much as possible as get it wired to your cluster. Use donor's OBDII and important engine stuff to make for cleaner install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ya, good job walking. probably had heagaskets - they do what you're describing. and for all the thermostat suggestions i rarely see failed thermostats - i see far more bad headgaskets - even in H6's. i've seen 4 H6's with bad headgaskets...none with bad thermostats yet. again - i'm sure it happens but i'd be cautious assuming something simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Yes like whathisface said . We would take a differnt tact if you already owned this. Always best to walk away when in doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pginter96 Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 As a frequent sufferer of rust belt cars, that is not a "no rust" car. I'd give that rear crossmember another 2 years in that environment. Total surface rust is one thing, nasty scale at the edges and seams is another. Good call on walking. This guy bought it at auction, maybe pad slapped it and just threw it on the lot. ANYTHING out of a third tier (or any dealer for that matter) dealer's mouth is either bullshit or omitting knowledge. He was probably Serbian, too, wasn't he? "For you, my friend, I make special deal!" No, but he was sketchy. All 'stealerships' are sketchy (despite both new pads -and- rotors). Went inside to warm up and hear another guy describing a Pontiac Bonneville SSEI "Turbo." Hey, forced induction is forced induction, right? In hindsight, this guy was probably selling independant of the dealer because he knew it needed lots of work and didnt want to have to put any kind of warrenty on it. So... That rear crossmember, eh? *looks under 97* welp... I used to work with someone who lost their 00 outback 2.5 because the pumkin fell out and there was nothing left to weld it to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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