funk Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Because RWD. Creative engineering, odd brand sourcing, machining... I have the resources to make this happen. All the knowledge and experience represented on this board ~ please help me piece this puzzle together. Breaking stuff doesn't bother me. If the diff explodes, I will upgrade. For the moment though, I'd like to sacrifice as little originality as possible. Expect lots of pictures and detailed documentation... '88 DL 5 speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Interesting idea. From experiance with multiple brands and styles of 4wds the selectible hubs were phased out for a stronger and more reliable switching system in the differential when car manufactures went to independent front ends. Now the problem with that would be Subaru's front diff being married to the trans, so that type of selection would most likely not be a great idea. I don't think the rear diff will be an issue since the style rear diff the old gen Subaru's use is also used in rwd Datsuns so it should hold up to power just fine. This leaves us with one issue and that would be the style of the front hubs and how the splines interact with the hubs. More than likely your going to have to fabricate a similar hub style from a late 80's early 90's toyota onto your Subaru front end. Your probably going to have to Frankenstein your CV axles up front too. I can see a way of doing this, but its hard to picture in my head how everything would interact. Edited January 23, 2015 by mikaleda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skishop69 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I'm all for trying new things, but what you are looking into has many drawbacks. The vehicles were not designed to be RWD. Your aforementioned rear diff concern (which probably isn't an issue), weight distribution and handling characteristics. FWD is superior which is why RWD has gone away save for trucks. Now to the mechanics of the matter. To really do it right, you will have to build an entire new front hub from scratch, steering knuckles, suspension and axles. If you're going to try and do this with just a hub, you're going to end up pushing the width of the front end out at least 2-3" on each side which changes your suspension loading points and now your steering rack is too short so you'll have to build knuckles or try to retrofit a different rack. Now you have a track width difference front to rear that is going to cause handling problems at higher speeds on just about any road that has ruts, which is darn near all of them. It's going to wander like a drunk sailor on shore leave. Just out of curiosity, why would you want to sacrifice FWD superiority for RWD? Edited January 23, 2015 by skishop69 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funk Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 skishop69 ~ Locking hubs would still allow FWD, and I doubt durability would be an issue given the relatively minor loads. You make some good points regarding the complexity of a conversion like this, but I am reasonably confident the factory knuckles can be persuaded to accept a locking hub, which would eliminate said copious amounts of suspension recombobulating. I will investigate. The track width issue is a concern, however I think the overall discrepancy would be more like 2-3" total, which I concede, would still need to be compensated. Rear wheel spacers, trickily backspaced front wheels, some combination thereof, plus realignment should set things straight. Maybe. I can deal with a little bumpsteer. To address the FWD/RWD question, heheh, what can I say? I am a dyed in the wool E30 guy. Out of the 40-odd cars I've owned, 2 of them were front drives. I have an '86 Brat somewhere that has been RWD for the last few thousand miles, no issues and I love being able to peel rubber in third with 80bhp. I'll have to go dig that thing out one day. mikaleda ~ As you know, there are many IFS applications which have selectable hubs. There are many oldschool applications where the hubs made the difference between 2 and 4WD in otherwise fulltime systems by simply allowing the axles to freewheel with the hubs unlocked. It's not a matter of what's already been done, if I find a relatively straightforward way to do this, and it works well, it could set a precedent. I know the CV shafts will need longer splines, so if the application calls for a different shaft diameter or spline count, I'm already halfway there. I can reshape and enlarge the bearing cradles. Getting the selectable to mate up with the factory equipment will require a fair bit of adaptation, but I know swapping out the whole undercarriage can be avoided. I am not opposed, however, to the idea of employing a pirated 'Yota hub. More on this, please. If this proves sound, I may have to mass produce 'Any-Wheel-You-Want-Drive' conversion kits. Call this a prototype. Heh. But in all seriousness... Thanks guys for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubaroo84 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 You also have to remember that the axle shaft sticks out and the axle is what holds the hub and rotor on. I've thought of this myself. My uncle said he thought he ran into a guy one time with some suzuki locking hubs on a subaru. What suzuki and how he did it, my uncle didn't know. The main thing is getting past the axle nut. If you could machine the inside of the hubs diameter out a bit and make new spines then make sleeves that go over the axle and one that goes into the hub and make some kind of locking ring that goes on the outside. Only problem is it would be metal on metal and you would need to install a bearing. I would look for IFS knuckles from an 80's jap pick up with manual hubs and see if they can be adapter. Ie: bolt the bottom ball joint to the control arm and bore out the top ball joint hole if necessary to install a strut. But then you need hybrid axles and the list goes on. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Early 80's Isuzu front hubs (Pup, Trooper, Hombre, Chevy Luv) up to 87 IIRC, Use an axle that shares it's inner spline count for the CV joint with Subaru. You could mount the Isuzu hubs to the subaru suspension, and then use a Hybrid axle with Isuzu outer CV, and Subaru shaft and inner CV. You would lose the Front E-Brake. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubaroo84 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Early 80's Isuzu front hubs (Pup, Trooper, Hombre, Chevy Luv) up to 87 IIRC, Use an axle that shares it's inner spline count for the CV joint with Subaru. You could mount the Isuzu hubs to the subaru suspension, and then use a Hybrid axle with Isuzu outer CV, and Subaru shaft and inner CV. You would lose the Front E-Brake. Yeah, it was isuzu not suzuki. I couldn't remember which one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redloyale Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Would'nt rear lockouts be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Would'nt rear lockouts be better? What would be the point? The rear axle is already selectable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 What would be the point? The rear axle is already selectable For offroad you could unlock hubs to run a welded diff. Lock for trail. In this case, the OP wants to be able to select FWD/4WD/RWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 There's also mid-half shaft axle disconnects sold for people towing cars behind RV's. You could mod just the axle and leave the hub alone. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/127505-quick-disconnect-cv-axles/ The RWD is fun, but expensive. I've got some stripped smooth rear transfer gears from inside one transmission and a couple busted R160's and sheared stub shafts kicking around from my adventures in RWD. I will say the front handbrake makes loooooooong burnouts down the road easy. One of the R160's fragged so bad the sheared crosspin cracked the carrier on the way out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 This thread has a Twin, started by the same person, but in another section: ~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/151501-selectable-front-hubs/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funk Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 There's also mid-half shaft axle disconnects You just made my day. Kia Sportage hubs were the plan, but this is just elegant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 yeah, hopefully you can find one... i just looked a bit and nada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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